Plastic parts, Airbus V Boeing split- cleaning out my 170 parts

[runerider]

Richard what do you know about the B757 center tank fuel pump AD? The one which won't let you use center tank pumps below 1000 lbs because they could over heat and cause an explosion. Remember TWA and the KC135 in MKE. Boeing didn't reengineer the rudder system on the B737 300 200 100 just ask the guys flying them and the taxi out rudder check and standby rudder check. You have to be smarter than any airplane your flying. To make a BS statement on which airplane is safe and which isn't with out any experience on either one makes no sense. There have been more c 170,s destroyed than any Boeing or Airbus are you going to park yours? To your ? About which light, it's the red one.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Well folks I believe we have just about beat this horse to death.

There are folks who won't get in one type of vehicle but have no problem with another seemingly same vehicle or activity. No matter what or why or how legitimate we all have our reasoning and it's not likely changed here.

I once had a guy who zoomed up to the sky diving school next to our base with no helmet or protective gear unless you count a T-shirt as protective gear. Later as he was waiting his ride in a packed ragged out King Air, he saw us by our EMS helicopter and came over to check it out. He looked it over and proclaimed the only way he'd get in one is if he was dead. I told him if he was dead we can't MedEvac him so if he really wanted to go out with a thrill ride he better at least have a heart beat. That made him think for a moment till his line was called.

[GAHorn]

It's not individual systems design weaknesses that make the Airbus questionable in my mind.
It's the entire design philosophy which departs from proven which make it a weak design.
Rune, I don't know of ANY C170 which crashed due to structural design failures, (unless you consider the seat track system inherently defective by design.)
The comparison of a 60 year old design which has resulted in the most popular aircraft in GA
history to a modern design which suffers failures to comply with well proven operating
practice of the rest of industry is not a valid comparison, in my opinion.
Regardless, it isn't nice to personalize anothers opinion as BS, as that impugns personally.
All,
Lets remain respectful in our differences of opinion, please.

[runerider]

What philosophy ?since you have lots of experience flying both please explane how the Air Bus is different from a Boeing. There afew difference on how to get the same job done. Fly by wire has been around along time [F-16]. The notion that you can have a pilot with very little exprence climb in a Bus and go fly is wrong. The Air Bus 320 school was the hardest that I have every done. They both fly the same Forward stick you go down aft stick you go up. As for feel who cares if it electric , cable or hyd. As for control of who is hand flying just push the little red button on the side stick if you dont like the view outside , but I really would like to have the philosophy ? answered. I only hear that from pilots who have never been in the Bus. And your right this has been beaten to death.

[runerider]

Does that mean if , say a Delta 373 was the equipment but they substituted it for a Bus you would stay in the boarding area?
You don't need a flame suit I would be more concerned what carrier I was on than which modern plane I was on.

[c170b53]

Bruce, I think we are just scratching the surface here but do we really care? I have no idea as to what we are trying to compare between ours and them. Difficult to compare machines that rack up hours beyond their stated lifespan exceeding 80000 hours when our planes are considered veterans after 6000 so I won't venture there.
Operators financial position and SOP's, oh yeah there's differences, but a shopper must always be wary. But let's talk ...da plane!
Lets face it manufacturers have to try to make improvements to their designs, designs that have to do the same thing and yet cannot be the same often due to legal issues. Just look at what missions the machines are now capable of safely completing. And so I have to like runeriders' thoughts that you have to be smarter than any aircraft you fly as it makes me smile. I think a better statement would be you have to understand what you are asking the plane to do and more importantly know what will be the result of your actions. What I do see are crews that swamped by technology and mostly are just managing to keep their heads above water. They are more information managers and liaison specialists, than pilots and yet they must still be able to fly something that really doesn't need their help until something very dire occurs. So having said that which is likely to rankle those who insist that they have ultimate control,lets return to the topic and I'll try to tie my ramblings together (good luck self).
When does a 777 pilot actually mechanically control the airplane?
Never, FBW does the work. Can they hand fly the airplane? Sure but it's a simulation, in the background the computers are flying, even the ground effect is simulated. Can they control the airplane manually, sure but in various degraded modes and that's something pilots unlikely venture into unless their backs are against the wall. Why have this philosophy? Your asking a human to perform beyond its design limitations when you design a plane to meet the demands of today's marketplace.
As for which machine is safer, you probably don't want to know what I know. Having said that, I get on them almost every week just like millions and millions of others who put their lives in the hands of professional pilots. With all the demands Is it any wonder that airline pilots smile and giggle when they return to a 170 cockpit
Lastly I hope for all concerned that pilot training ceases to erode and if anything it needs to improve regardless of the
pressures imposed by todays economy

. Gee I need to get off this box and stretch some

[hilltop170]

Here's a video of the A380 banging it HARD on the runway in a light but very direct crosswind at OSH. They still have a lot of work to do to get all that fancy schmancy software to grease it on when the pilot has a brain fart!

http://youtu.be/-iIG1ZOPLJA?t=56s

I personally think that was a good landing, or a very lucky one! It was one of the best spot landings/short field landings I have ever seen in a passenger jet (not counting the C-17 airshow demos). The one thing I didn't see was rudder deflection just before touchdown to straighten out the plane, he just flew it on in a crab. Maybe that's the way Airbus trains but it looks like a lot of stress to the landing gear and airframe could be reduced with rudder.

There was another video taken from some other GA airplane on final approach at a later time which showed the tire marks where the A-380 touched down, it was feet from the end of the runway. I think the captain was concerned about runway length and deliberately landed short and firm, maybe a little too firm but who hasn't one time or another (especially when the whole world is watching and you're trying to make a good impression).

[mekstrand]

Just a thought...

In most large aircraft with four pod mounted hi bypass engines, it is recommended to land in a crab. For example the 747 with CF-6 engines that I flew allows only 4 degrees of bank at touchdown or you risk a pod strike. Perhaps the professional pilots flying this considerably larger aircraft may actually know what they are doing.

[runerider]

After watching the video I don't know what you are trying to say. They landed the worlds largest passenger plane on a short narrow runway in a strong and gusty crosswind, while the aircraft is 100s of thousands of pounds below max landing where VLS and V app are about the same and ground speed mini isn't really helping. I can't imagine what the AOA was but it had to be rather high restricting the view of the runway out of the right side window and right front window. So what wasn't right ,them not running off the left side of the runway or them using the right rudder peddle straighten the aircraft out after a very challenging approach? Looks to me that they did a good job for what they had to do. I've always wondered why Old rather experienced pilots watch a less than good approach and landing, ends in laughter and phrases: been there done that let's have a beer. While younger less experienced guys always know just what and why things went wrong. Maybe big ugly airplanes shouldn't land at airports with little runways so little airplane pilots can look at them.

[blueldr]

If you're really interested in crosswind landings in big airplanes, there's a very good video in Portugese from Brazil on you "You Tube" of Boeing tests of the 747 and 777 landing in SERIOUS crosswinds. They hold them VERY level all the way through touch down and land in a helluva crab.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

dead-horse.gif (129.04 KiB) Viewed 17738 times

[busav8or]

That's really funny, Bruce, and I totally agree!

[hilltop170]

I agree with Bruce but everyone still needs to realize everyone on this forum is expressing OPINIONS. Anyone who gets angry or their feelings hurt and feel they need to lash out at others who are expressing OPINIONS needs to take a Midol and relax.

[blueldr]

Right on, Richard.

[runerider]

OPINION : a belief or judgement that rest on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty. KNOWLEDGE: is a familiarity with someone or something, which can include facts, information,description, or skills acquired through experience or education. BLATHER: OPINION without KNOWLEDGE. MIDOL: For the relief of Menstrual Symptoms. Was your comment on the use of Midol based on opinion or knowledge?