Strobes experiences

cessna170bdriver · Post by **cessna170bdriver** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:09 pm

Kyle Wolfe wrote:FYI - I just bought the GE Q4509 quartz halogen bulbs for $20.63 each (versus the $9 or so for a regular filament bulb). Figured that the few extra bucks was easily worth a try.

Kyle,

How are the quartz halogen lights working for you? I went out one evening last weekend to get night current and my landing/taxi light was inop. Today I'm going to troubleshoot to make sure it isn't the switch, but I am out of spare bulbs and looking for replacements anyway.

A question for all:
My rotating beacon was also inop (dead motor). My airplane has never had strobes, and I'm thinking of adding them. I'm debating between a beacon replacement or a wingtip system. Any recommendations?

Miles

HA · Post by HA » Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:29 am

Miles

I have a Whelen strobe for my beacon (top of rudder, 172

)

I am going to add wingtip strobes, they lend so much more visibility day and night. now with my daughter learning to fly I'm getting more safety conscious I guess.

Hans

Robert Eilers · Post by **Robert Eilers** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:00 am

Miles - I have the stropes Rudder and wing tips. The strobes are great for visibility, but I find them a little annoying on the ground. Instead of that nice rotating red beacon just before starting the engine there is a rude FLASH, FLASH, FLASH with the strobes. As a result, at night (with nav lights on) taxing in close vicinity of other aircraft I will switch them off - also holding short at the threshold for landing aircraft. Once airborne the strobes are great.

3958v · Post by **3958v** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:03 am

Miles I put the wing tip strobes on my ragwing and I also repaced the single strobe that was in the center of the fusalage on top as I would have had a patch there if I had not done so. The set up was easy to install but it does draw quite a bit of current I have a Jasco alternator so it is not a problem for me. The hardest part for me was fishing the wires down the wing. But I have a different wing than you so you might want to check out how hard its going to be before you order the kits. Bill K

n3833v · Post by **n3833v** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:04 pm

I have the wingtip strobes only and find they don't bother me on the ground or that any others complained about them at the airport when we fly together.

John.

Post by **GAHorn** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:22 pm

I have only the Whelen Wingtip strobes. They drove me nuts both on the ground and in the air..... until I followed the instructions and arranged them to flash alternately instead of simultaneously. (I have the double-flash system, ... the new comet-flash might have different effects, but... Simultaneous flashing seemed to intoxicate. Alternate flashing is just great.)

cessna170bdriver · Post by **cessna170bdriver** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:17 pm

Thanks for the heads-up George. Can you actually see the strobes flashing when airborne? I had ASSuMEd that wingtip strobes would be blanked out by the wing as seen from the cockpit.

I had thought of using the system with two single-light power supplies, one mounted on each tip rib, with the light plugged directly into it. My thinking (dangerous, I know...) was that this setup would reduce the amount of high-voltage wiring and possibility of interference with intercom and/or radios. These individual power supples can operate independently or synchronized, but evidently not in an alternating mode.

I'm sure the flash rates of any two individual supplies would never be EXACTLY the same when running independently, causing the lights to sometimes be alternating and sometimes in synch. I guess I'll have to do a bit more research.

Where did you mount your power supply, and where in the wing did you route the wires? I have a shelf behind the baggage compartment that once held the transmitter/power supply for an old Narco Mk12A NavComm. I'm sure it would support the 2.1 lb of the Whelen power supply.

It may be discussed here somewhere, but I haven't noticed what the approval requirements will be for replacing a rotating beacon with a 2-light strobe system. Is a logbook entry sufficient?

Miles

Kyle Wolfe · Post by **Kyle Wolfe** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:58 pm

Miles, I haven't done too much night flying, but I do think it made a difference in the light it cast. And I do think that the bulb is lasting longer. No need to replace it yet!

I too have the Whelens. The power supply is mounted in the rear, but I'll have to look to tell you exactly where.

I have small droop tips (MASA STOL kit) and the lights are only a pain when on the ground at night. My FBO installed them. They also put a pulsing white light on the rear location.

Jr.CubBuilder · Post by **Jr.CubBuilder** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:50 pm

I put strobes on mine a couple years ago and it made a huge difference in other people picking me out in the pattern during the evening. I got a Whelen kit with the A650 wingtip strobes and the A500 tail strobe/position light. The Power supply was mounted just behind the baggage bulkhead on the side attached to the stringers. I think the power supply is the A413AHDA but I can't remember for sure, however it does give some flexibility in it's setup as far as how you want them to alternate and also does three quick flashes from each light which I like as I think it's easier to see.

We had a bit of a problem mounting the A650s because the wire didn't really want to go through the old Cessna wingtip bracket like it was supposed to. Depending on the type of wingtip you have that might not be the one you would want.

I haven't noticed any ill effects like George has from the flashing except at night one time in some haze. Sometimes taxing back from the farthest end of the airfield I like to leave them on just for ambience, but usually I turn them off on the ground.

cessna170bdriver · Post by **cessna170bdriver** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:50 am

Jr.CubBuilder wrote:We had a bit of a problem mounting the A650s because the wire didn't really want to go through the old Cessna wingtip bracket like it was supposed to. Depending on the type of wingtip you have that might not be the one you would want.

I have the original aluminum wingtips. I assume the Molex connector for the flash tube that comes on the A-650's needs a new hole in the tip under the position light? I wouldn't have a problem making a new hole as long as it wouldn't show when assembled.

You also mentioned you have the power supply mounted behind the baggage compartment. Do you notice any electrical noise in the intercom or radio from the long high-voltage wire runs?

Even though the installation with individual power supplies would be more expensive, I can't get used to the idea of running high-voltage cable all over the airplane. Also, the 2-supply installation would be slightly lighter (due to the weight of the cable).

Miles

Jr.CubBuilder · Post by **Jr.CubBuilder** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:24 am

It's been two years so my memory is a bit fuzzy, but yes there was something on the connector side. Seems like we had to hog out the hole where the old wire came out of the wingtip bracket so that the connector would fit. Then there was something goofy about how we routed the wire between the light and the bracket on the wingtip, it had to be just so, or else it would get smashed. It wasn't a big deal it was just kind of fiddely, and a bummer when I thought it would just bolt right on, and I also have the old original aluminum tips.

I can hear my strobes in the radio when the motor isn't running, but my passengers can't. For what little it's worth I work in IT and I can hear electronics ring (like old CRTs) when nobody else in the shop can.

I was going to do the wingtip power supply strobes but the mechanic at the time talked me out of them because of weight on the wingtip, and he seemed to think the single power supply would be easier to install. You have a point Miles add up all that wire and it probably negates the weight advantage of a single power supply vs two or more. I also decided early on that I wanted my tail strobe as well so a single power source that would run them all made more sense.

N4281V · Post by **N4281V** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:21 am

Miles,

Might be only the Whelen system that is STC'd for the 170 series (George?) so that takes care of meeting FAR requirement for coverage and candle strength. You can do either wingtips or wingtips plus rudder with the Whelen single power supply system.

We installed the stobes during the wing recover and the power supply is installed below the passenger front seat (under the floor). No noises and the comet flash system I have is great, especially since my airplane is dark blue and grey - great camoflauge! I turn my stobes off on the ground so I'm not taxing my generator at idle.

It's a great investment! Go for it!

Ann

dgkirk · Post by **dgkirk** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:52 am

Miles - just put a set of Aero-Flash strobes in the 170B wingtips and powered them with the old CB and Switch from a single strobe. Power supply bolts to the end rib of the wing(s) and I fished a wire out by taping a new wire to the nav light wire at the wing root and pulling the nav light wire out at the wingtip, then doupled the wires back thru the wing. Worked great! I have an older 337 with the info on installation if you need it. These days I don't even plan on asking for a field approval - just quote the FARs and send it in. Strobe kits complete except for wires,switch and CB were $300 from Spruce and they work great. This is the same setup used on newer Cessnas.

Post by **GAHorn** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:53 am

Miles, we mounted my single power supply behind the baggage bulkhead. Your old Narco shelf is probably just right. No avionics noise whatsoever. (Remember... only ground the shielding on one end of the cables... not both ends... or you'll have a ground-fault. This is a common error that is found in many "noisy" strobe systems.) The wires were run out alongside the nav lite wiring.
Another advantage of the single power supply is that it will power a tail strobe should you later decide you want it. (Can't imagine why you'd do that tho' unless money is no object. .. the wingtip stobes meet all the requirements and are very visible.)
The original nav lite fixtures were deemed unsuitable for adding the piggy-back strobes by the installing mechanic.... and I don't recall the exact reason...perhaps it had to do with what's already been said.... so I authorized purchasing the complete piggy-back lite/strobe fixture from Whelen and sold the originals to recover some of the costs. With the complete units no alteration of the wingtip was necessary. It was a simple bolt-on.

As for the Aeroflash units.... they are less expensive but they do not meet the req's for brilliance. The Whelens are the way to go if you really want the best system for the job.

No problem running the strobes as far as electrical supply goes.... I have a 35A generator and it carries everything just fine. (Digital/solidstate radios, standard GE4509 landing lites.)

170C · Post by **170C** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:42 pm

Miles, when I did my new (2001) paint job, I added Whelen wing-tip strobes and replaced my motorcycle red strobe

with a Whelen flashing red/white strobe on the belly. Power supply for all three is behind the baggage compartment on a small shelf/bracket added by my IA. I sure like them. They help visibility wise in the daytime and they don't bother you at night. I've read you are supposed to turn them off if you get into clouds or fog to prevent reflections. As far as a bother at night on the ground, you are supposed to respect your fellow flyers by keeping them off until you are ready to take off and again once off the runway when landing. The nice thing about the single power supply is its easy to get to and you can vary whether you want all 3 to flash at once or, as George said, make them flash alternately (they flash brighter if alternating). On your plane you likely wouldn't place the red/white strobe that replaces your old rotating beacon on the belly, but if you do, be sure to drill a hole at the lowest point on the lens (rear) so any water that might get in the lens can drip out. Otherwise it can ruin the strobe when it fills up from sitting in the rain or washing the plane. Don't ask how I know this