Trip to Idaho

[Curtis Brown]

I am planning a trip from Tupelo, Ms (TUP) to Sandpoint, Id. (SZT) in late August. Going to fly my C145 powered 170 with my wife and light luggage,maybe some light camping gear and of course my fly rod. My plans are to go to or near Billings, Mt. and then follow the interstate highway into Northwest Idaho.
PLEASE... any advice on helping a flatlander in making this trip safer is appreciated. I know the basics about mountain flying but any local knowledge would be helpful.
ALSO... any must see/go to places of interest near there or along the way would be nice to know.
How about some helpful comments!

[1SeventyZ]

Wow, Tupelo to Sandpoint. That's quite a trip. I too, have been very curious about how a C-145 powered 170 performs in those high and tight strips. We had a fly-in a few weeks ago, and had many threads to the effect of "what's it like to fly into Johnson Creek?" I'm sure many of the owners around here can provide some empirical anecdotes about doing it themselves, but one of our guys said that he's flown into JC in a 170 loaded to gross and gotten out fine...in the cool morning air of course. I watched a '59 C172 takeoff in mid July at about 6:30am and he did ok, lightly loaded though.

The rule about flying in the early morning to about 10:30am really proved true... The density altitudes soared and the ridetop winds whipped up each day about 11am, and the flying became no fun. The 145hp birds just don't have the extra power to compensate when the density altitude goes up even a little bit, so fly early! Keep those airspeeds down in the pattern and on approach and you can maneuver fine in the tighter canyons below the ridges.

I'm only assuming that you're interested in the mountain airstrips. Idaho has a lot to offer in the way of lower elevation airports that have wide open, safe approaches. I think that Johnson Creek is a must-do though. Great camping and scenery. The McCall airport is really nice too for a stop in a more civilized area. I've only seen photos of Priest Lake and Cavanugh Bay, but those areas look beautiful.

Gene Swan, a Maule pilot from Oregon posted some good stuff in this thread about flying into Johnson Creek. Nice use of Google Earth.

If you plan to go any farther west you may want to check out Lake Sullivan, WA. It's a grass strip in far eastern WA, just over the border from Sandpoint.

[Mike Smith]

The last two summers I have flown my 1950 C-170A (145hp powered) to Idaho from Northern California. Last time I took out the back seat to save 22 pounds and make loading/unloading easier. I rigged up a netting to keep the stuff from flying around in turbulence or in the event of an unscheduled landing. I planned my fuel so the take-off weight was around 1700-1800 pounds maximum when leaving the backcountry. I also followed all the backcountry rules of thumb about not flying in the mid-day, adding 30% to the take-off roll if on turf, etc. If you want to hear more then e-mail me (mikesmith140@aol.com) or you can e-mail me your phone number and I'll call ya so we can talk, if you want.

Have fun!!!!!!!!

[buchanan]

I don’t know your last stop prior to Billings, however I’d opt for Laurel instead of Billings. Laurel is only 15 miles from Billings, out of class C and has a cross-wind runway. It is a lot smaller, more friendly place. Leaving Laurel you will run into the prevailing westerly (if you haven’t already). You could go to Cut Bank next or my advice would be Valier (my home town, although we are living in Galena AK now). You can get fuel at Valier. Call ahead to Chuck Redd 406-279-3342 or Luke Redd 279-3469 to insure someone will be there to fuel you. Tell them “Buck” sent you. There is a clean motel within walking distance and a good “working-man’s” café a half a block from the motel. You can also camp on the airport and they have a pilot lounge with rest-rooms and a shower. This is all in a metropolis of about 600 people.

All that hustle and bustle got to us so we retired to a bush village in AK; but primarily to be with our one of our Sons’ and his family.

Regards, Buck

PS If you want any more advice about getting across the “rocks” let me know.

[cessna170bdriver]

I am planning a trip from Tupelo, Ms (TUP) to Sandpoint, Id. (SZT) in late August. Going to fly my C145 powered 170 with my wife and light luggage,maybe some light camping gear and of course my fly rod. My plans are to go to or near Billings, Mt. and then follow the interstate highway into Northwest Idaho.
PLEASE... any advice on helping a flatlander in making this trip safer is appreciated. I know the basics about mountain flying but any local knowledge would be helpful.
ALSO... any must see/go to places of interest near there or along the way would be nice to know.
How about some helpful comments!

On our trip from Picayune, MS to Kalispell, MT to the 1995 170 Convention, my daughter and I enjoyed stops at Pioneer Village, Minden, NE; Custer State Park, and Mount Rushmore near Rapid City, SD, and Yellowstone National Park, using the West Yellowstone, MT airport. To get into West Yellowstone, we refueled at Bozeman after crossing the Divide over the interstate, then headed toward Ennis, MT, then down the valley to Henry's Lake, ID, then back up to West Yellowstone. I was much more comfortable with this route than the 9000+ pass from Cody, WY.

In 2003, Karen and I spent Labor Day weekend at Johnson Creek. We stopped in Nampa, ID for fuel and a briefing from Ken Morrow, the ID area 170 rep. He advised us to start a descent at Yellow Pine to about 500 AGL. When you first see the runway at JC, you'll be on a fairly short 45-degree final approach. If you first spot the runway from 1000 AGL, you'll have trouble getting down. As best as I remember, we departed at about 2000 lbs gross weight about 7:00 in the morning (OAT in the high 30s to mid 40's). and had no problem getting out. Not knowing the terrain, I circled over Yellow Pine to about 8500 ft, then continued climbing on course to McCall.

All of the above on O-300 and C-145 engines.

Miles

[Curtis Brown]

This is great fellows.... thank you! This gives me some things to study/look at.
Keep those cards and letters coming in. I am interested in anything near the area or along my route. Not sure just yet how much time I will have, I am hoping for about 10 days or more.

[Jr.CubBuilder]

Curtis you might want to consider Cavanaugh Bay since it is close to Sandpoint.

Be very thoughtfull about how you approach any of the smaller strips, especially if you haven't spent much time in your plane at higher altitudes. The 170 will do what your POH says it will, but I scared myself once now by not planning for the added drag of a soft grass strip. Soft wet grass like you would enjoy waking barefoot in will drag like mud, the hard crunchy stuff poking through dried out dirt is almost as good as concrete. Spend plenty of time getting the lay of the land via sectional, and also before you set down, spend five, ten, even fifteen minutes checking it out before you put the plane down and if you don't like what you see go somewhere else with a nice paved strip and a place to eat. The reason I say that is you should have a real good sense of where the rising terrain is so you don't fly into it, the terrain around there can easily outclimb your plane so know where you are headed.

If it's your first time there in a small plane I suggest that you plan on operating out of airports like Sandpoint rather than heading for something that is down in a canyon. The mountain sceenery will take your breath away, and there is no end to beautifull vistas to enjoy from the air.

Miles I'm not sniping at you when I say this, but you should fly a pattern when going into JC. There is plenty of room in the canyon if you stay up at about 800' agl. While you can't fly a pattern the same size that you can 1000'agl at an open airport you can still have upwind and downwind legs, crosswind and base become gentle turns rather than straight legs. This gives you a chance to look over the airport, time to announce your intentions, see traffic, check out the field for tractors etc. You don't want to be 300' off the deck on short final and realize that there is something on the field. In that scenario you would be fairly well loaded, pouring the coals to it, raising your flaps, desperately trying to gain airspeed, while flying upriver into rising terrain at 5000'+ elevation. Not fun

A couple other things to think about. When you are flying in canyons like that slow down. Seventy miles per hour on the ASI is a real comfortable speed in our planes, and it allows you to turn around in a small radius. Don't get crazy with the "bankin and yankin" in canyons because when all you see in the windshield is the side of a mountain it's easy to loose orientation. Also, while it was probably very deserted when you were there Miles, that spot over Yellowpine does turn into a high traffic orientation point. On a busy day it would be like circling for altitude in the middle of base leg at a small airport. You can fly out of JC, over Yellowpine, hang a left to head east for McCall, follow the canyon till you climb straight over the ridge and descend for McCall. If you are to loaded to make it straight out then it's even better to follow the canyon east of Yellowpine then follow it as it turns to the north till you have the altitude and cross the ridge at a fourty five degree angle.

Curtis I'm jealous, I wish I could take ten days off for a flying adventure, you're gonna have a blast.

[cessna170bdriver]

I stand corrected. Didn't mean to steer anyone wrong, just relating what worked for me. I'm assuming that Ken took the likely lack of traffic into account when he briefed me on the arrival. (There were probably fewer than 10 other airplanes at JC that weekend.) Of course, I kept to the right of the canyon and made the requisite position and intention reports on the way in, as well as listening for possible departing traffic. I can see where the pattern would help if there were departing traffic or someone/something on the runway.

The circling over Yellow Pine on departure was for my own comfort before proceeding west to McCall, with eyes and ears wide open.

[Curtis Brown]

I am getting lots of info here! This is very helpful.
What kind of weather can I expect the last week of August.
What is the seasonal temperature range. Are there Aspen trees or any type of foilage change yet?
What about fly fishing?

[Jr.CubBuilder]

I don't think the trees will be showing any color then, but it will be beautifull. It should still be hot then 80+ but getting cool at night.

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/fish/

[Tom Downey]

Your stop in Billings is OK but then go direct Cutbank and follow Hgy #2 direct Sand point.

That will take you thru Marias pass at 5000". for about 50 miles,other wise your in the mountains all the way from Billlings to S/point

[buchanan]

I'd agree with Tom except I'd opt for Laurel and then Valier like I posted before. Following the road across the rocks is good advice.

Buck

[Joe Moilanen]

Another Idaho strip that works well for getting your feet wet is Moose Creek. It has all the academics of mountain strips but has intersecting runways, the longest one is 4100' and it is relatively low for Idaho backcountry (2454' MSL). It's a beautiful place, 25 miles from the nearest road. The only way in there is by foot, horseback, or plane. Since it's in Wilderness Area, they still mow the strip with a sickle-bar behind a horse. I've been into dozens of the Idaho strips over the years and the 170 will do some amazing thing in the right conditions but it's best to put one toe in the water at a time until you get used to it. Have a Great Trip!

Joe 4518C

[Curtis Brown]

I mention Billings only as a waypoint... I too prefer the smaller airports. Laurel is what I was planning on as my starting point as a transition from flatland to mountain flying. Yes I will want to explore some friendly backcountry strips get experience before trying the more challenging ones. Moose Creek is a new one to me. I will have to find info on that one. Johnson Creek is mentioned here often. I have not gotten the maps out yet to locate backcountry strips only to plot a route in. It may be helpful to get some bearings from Sandpoint to some of these places you guys are mentioning that would help me local them more easily.
My son is in school at Elk Mountain Academy that is near Clark Fork which is near Sandpoint. Wife and I would like to spend a week or more in that part of the world. We will only stay maybe three days with son in his area.
THANKS EVERYONE...keep those comments coming.
I am getting excited.

[cessna170bdriver]

Curtis,

For purposes of finding Moose Creek on the chart, airnav.com says Moose Creek ( http://www.airnav.com/airport/1U1 ) is about 147nm SSE of Sandpoint ( http://www.airnav.com/airport/SZT ). Johnson Creek is 76nm SSW of Moose Creek.

Miles