Newbie Shopping

[bradbrady]

Bruce,
Very well put
brad

[BenWlson]

was never able to get any TriPacer above 9500

I've had the Tri-Pacer up to 11,000 once. It was January, and I was all alone in the plane... the cabin vent got REAL cold too.

[GAHorn]

George George George . Using Trade-a-plane figures now. I thought we've found errors in those figures before?

"And the Cessna has two cabin doors one on each side for easy access,"

Piper has a door on each side. One happens to be in the back which is one more than the Cessna has in the rear. Hmmm.

...., and is made of better materials.

I don't think so. I'd much rather be repairing/replacing a wing or fuselage or any part of either of any of the rag Piper products than I would my the aluminum of my 170.
...

TradeAPlane indeed has some errors on some statistics, but the ones I've quoted above did not seem erroneous and I used the source because it is one that is easily confirmed by anyone doing research.

How many times have you approached your airplane to get into the BACK? Heh? AND....the Cessna's doors are so W I D E ...that they easily serve the rear seats as well as the front! In fact, it's usually recommended to load the rear seats before the front seats in a Cessna!

The Piper will NEED those repairs too! Fabric will not withstand the rigors of outdoor storage and abuse nearly as well as all metal aircraft, AND it's much easier to find metal-smiths these days than folks who work on fabric.

(I think my opinion is less opinionated that your opinion. So there!)

[flat country pilot]

I had the priviledge of flying a 180 Skywagon last weekend, and I fell in love, but the 170 is much closer to my budget.

You didn’t say that you own a Tri-pacer, just that you fly a Tri-pacer and fell in love with a 180 and were looking for a 170. If you can keep flying the piper, fly it, enjoy it, be proud of it and have lots of fun. In the mean time you could build your savings and shop for the plane you really want.

Before I took flying lessons one of the coolest things I ever saw was a Tri-pacer. I had no idea what make of plane I was looking at, just that it was an airplane and looked real fun. The owner probably thought I was loco telling him how cool his plane was. But he was flying and I wasn’t.

Continue to frequent these forums. There is a lot of info here and everyone is welcome, even the nose dragger training wheel types.

Just keep flying and have fun.

Bill
[/quote]

[CraigH]

I've owned both a PA22 and a 170B. If money were no object I'd definitely prefer the Cessna.

- HOWEVER -

If money is an issue, you can get a Cherry PA22/PA20 for $30K or slightly more. That same amount is likely to land you a turdlike 170. In order to find a comparable 170 you'll most likely have to spend $15K or more.

IMHO, in the 30K range the Piper is the clear winner. Whether or not the Cessna is worth 15K more is up to each individual to decide.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

TradeAPlane indeed has some errors on some statistics, but the ones I've quoted above did not seem erroneous and I used the source because it is one that is easily confirmed by anyone doing research.

I realize this and your motive for using it but thought it uncharacteristic of you and couldn't resist the ribbing.

How many times have you approached your airplane to get into the BACK? Heh? ....

Every time I've gone to unload baggage.

..... it's much easier to find metal-smiths these days than folks who work on fabric.

I don't think it's easy to find either of those skills these days. I'd much rather be looking for a welder to replace common 4130 tubing while rebuilding say the entire tail section than someone with the skill and equipment to stamp out a new fuselage bulkhead.

And the Cessna ........ is made of better materials.

Tube and fabric construction has it's pros and cons as does aluminum. I don't think either material is superior over the other which was your comment George.

This is a Ford vs Chevy kind of discussion which could never end but I'll make one last observation.

While I really like the tube and fabric Piper products specially the Clipper and Pacers you may note by my signature that I don't own one. I do own a Cessna 170 however, for many of the reasons George stated.

(I think my opinion is less opinionated that your opinion. So there!)

I agree. Any comment.

[Steve Pierce]

Climb in a Pacer or Tri-Pacer is much better than the 170s I have flown. Tame that Pacer and have the gear alignment checked. I have a Pacer and a Clipper. I learned in the clipper. Some Pacers have misaligned gear and that makes them squirley. Fly it to Graham (RPH) and I will check alignment for you. I rebuild rag wing Pipers and have done some Cessnas and would much rather have to fix the Piper. All just my humble opinions. Come by Graham (RPH) only hanger on the east side of the field or drop me an email stevepierce@pierceaero.net

[c170b53]

I agree with Ha, if a straight tail 172 is available, (there's going to be at that price range), with hours left on the engine that's a good option. I think those classics will increase in value in the future, and might do you well until a tail machine and you cross paths.

[CraigH]

I agree with Ha, if a straight tail 172 is available, (there's going to be at that price range), with hours left on the engine that's a good option. I think those classics will increase in value in the future, and might do you well until a tail machine and you cross paths.

Very true. A good friend of mine just bought a very nice '56 172 with 450smoh. Paid in the low $30's for it. Great value for the money IMHO.

[N2865C]

Hi Brad,

One consideration is what type of flying you are really going to do when you get your plane. How often will your wife and child really fly with you? Is most of the flying you do for fun by yourself, or with one passenger? IMHO you just can't beat a 120/140 for carrying two people, 80 lbs. of baggage, burning under 5 gal. per hour at 105 mph with low maintenance costs, and most importantly for fun. As tailwheel aircraft go they are farily forgiving for new pilots. Personally, I would rather have an great 120/140 than a mediocre 170. Your operating costs (fuel, insurance, maintenance) will be about 1/3 less in a 120/140. If your family fly's occasionally and you need the space then just rent a 172. You will come out way ahead financially. Then later on you can trade up to a 170 when you can really afford a good one. You didn't say how old your child is, but there is a child seat that goes behind the bench seat in 120/140's (but they may be hard to find and probably have a weight limit of around 75 lbs.).

But of course the most important reason to get a tailwheel airplane is because tailwheel pilots have better BBQ's

[Romeo Tango]

One other bit to consider is these airplanes hold their value. We aren't making any more of them, but we are making more pilots interested in them. So, think of it as an investment account - treat it properly, manage it properly, and you can sell it for some reasonable profit in the future, with little capital risk in the meantime.

As for saving a bit up front but losing year of "fix up" time - you can never recover the lost time. And you'll be paying to fly another airplane in the meantime. Get something you can get in and go. Then put in your new desired toys at the first annual after you've had it for a bit.

[N2865C]

One other bit to consider is these airplanes hold their value. We aren't making any more of them, but we are making more pilots interested in them. So, think of it as an investment account - treat it properly, manage it properly, and you can sell it for some reasonable profit in the future, with little capital risk in the meantime.

That's the same story I give to my wife

[GAHorn]

(I think my opinion is less opinionated that your opinion. So there!)

I agree. Any comment.

I can't believe you let me off the hook so easy on my obvious mis-statement regarding which seats are first boarded in a 170.
After I re-read these posts I realized that I'd stated it exactly backwards. It's actually much easier to board the front seats first, then the aft seats....and when dismounting, ...to reverse the process.

The first airplane I can ever remember and blame for my life-long interest in flying is a Piper TriPacer. While staying the summer with my Aunt Pauline, a Carlsbad, NM 4th grade teacher, she took her summer-school class to the local airport and someone let each of us sit in a TriPacer for a few minutes in the hangar. At age 5, I was bitten by the airplane bug! (And now you guys all know the best reason to think poorly of a TriPacer.... your flying might never have been complicated by me if I hadn't laid eyes on a TriPacer!)

[KenB]

I’ve seen a polished ’48 in Pine Bluffs, WY for 30-35k. It fits the description given above of most 170s that are in that price range. Been sitting on the ramp for at least a year and I’m not sure if anyone is running it. I’m in the area often if anyone is interested I’ll take pictures and email….

[bradbrady]

John,
sorry to get back to you so late, I don't get to get on line every day (LIKE MY KIDS) Like Bruce. said pipers are as good as cessnas, or that was the way I took his post! When you talk c-140's I think these people are undervaluing their aircrft. I have a c-140 in the shop that the owners are asking 32K for, (I thought that was a little high) but according to the 120-140 people It is astronomical!. If this A/C was a 170 It would be worth 50-60K but everyone has there own thoughts. What's yours.
brad