Insurance for Student Pilot

4-Shipp · Post by **4-Shipp** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:03 pm

My youngest son turns 16 in 3 weeks and I called my insurance company about getting him covered in the 170 for his inital solo. They called back today and told me the underwriter would add him, but for dual only. They said he would have to go elsewhere to get his private. I informed the person that there was no where else, this was our family airplane and that is what he would learn in and asked what our options were. She simply said that the underwriter would not insure him. I then asked if we could find another underwritter that would write the policy. She agreed to check and will get back to me in a few days (why she didn't do this on her own I have no idea).

Several thoughts/questions come up:

1. The agent was ignorant of the age and license requirements and the process of soloing out a student pilot. I thought this was unusual and honestly expected more from them.

2. Have any of you been in similar circumstances and what did you do to get coverage? I find it hard to believe that I am the only guy in the country that is teaching his son to fly in a classic, family-owned taildragger.

3. I will not mention the broker's name just yet as I am waiting to find out what their final solution is. Hey, I'll give them a chance for redemption and sing their praises if they come through. This is the second time I have felt this company did very little to help me out. The previous time I tried to get a quote for a 7AC Champ to do dual only instruction - no solo. Their answer was again the underwriter will not sell the coverage, period.

If I don't get a satisfactory answer from them I will try some other agencies and do what I need to to get him covered.

This should not be so hard to do!

Bruce

CraigH · Post by **CraigH** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:40 pm

Bruce,
As a student (and now) I was insured through Avemco. They carried me as an owner/student with a whopping 18 hours TT. Several years ago, they also carried a friend of mine who was learning to fly in his own PA-16.

Indopilot · Post by **Indopilot** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:37 am

One thing we recently ran into with insurance that really twisted my tail was the fact that once we got a quote/binder from one insurace company, no one else would give us a quote

Kind of hard to shop and compare that way. They seemed high so wanted to look around a bit more.
We have been giving it some thought of going with Liability only and paying ourselves the Hull premium. If we had done that when we got the plane years ago we would be sitting pretty. Though it does help to have a fair amount of tail wheel time and be able to fix your opps if it comes along. Brian

Post by **GAHorn** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:32 am

I thought about doing that too, but over 7 years I'd only have saved about 5G's and a really nasty event or total loss due to fire, wind, engine failure, theft, etc. wouldn't nearly cover the loss, ... so I just keep on paying the premiums.

Dave Clark · Post by **Dave Clark** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:20 pm

Indopilot wrote:One thing we recently ran into with insurance that really twisted my tail was the fact that once we got a quote/binder from one insurace company, no one else would give us a quote Kind of hard to shop and compare that way. They seemed high so wanted to look around a bit more.

Very common, and very frustrating. I like to get quotes direct from the direct writers first (Avemco etc.) then if I feel I need to go beyond that the key is to deal with a reputable national broker that is well recommended.

170C · Post by **170C** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:51 pm

One of the problems with the aviation insurance marketplace is there are a very limited number of companies that provide that coverage. Brokers/Agents such as Travers represent one or more, sometimes all of those markets, excluding the direct writers such as Avemco (the State Farm of aviation carriers). Keep checking around to see what you can find and let us know if your source comes through for you or not.

48c170 · Post by **48c170** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:58 pm

I bought my 170 for my primary training. Worked through a broker in Houston who is a pilot. If memory serves, Phoenix was the underwriter during my training. Let me know if you need details, and I will see if I still have the records.

Chris

mrpibb · Post by **mrpibb** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:26 pm

Another agency you may want to try is aua, they were very helpfull in writing me a policy. they insured me while i was a student and as soon as I got my rating they rewrote for a lower premium. They are very knowlageable about aviation as they are active in the eaa and vaa and the such. heres the link

http://www.auaonline.com/index.htm

4-Shipp · Post by **4-Shipp** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:55 pm

Update:

The original borker, Travers, called back and said that they could not find ANY underwriter to cover my son for solo flight, period. They said only one underwriter, Pheonix, would cover him for dual only (pretty useless coverage when you are trying to get your PPL).

I only name the broker to let others know what to expect when looking for similar covereage - they made no promises that they failed to keep and were polite on the phone. They were just unable/unwilling to find the desired coverage.

I called Norma at AUA and told her "I am trying to teach my 15 year old son to fly in a '53 170B and my current broker was unable to find me coverage. I can't believe I am the only person in the country trying to teach a family member to fly in a vintage taildragger. Can you help me?"

She responded that she knew someone that would write the policy, took my vital stats, and said she would get back to me. She seemed very confident that she would be successful (but didn't talk price...I don't want to think about that!). I'll let you know how this turns out.

Again, this is not meant ot be flame bait for Travers - just stating the fact that I was unable to procure the desired coverage through their company.

More to follow on the second mortgage to finance the son's training!

Bruce

Dave Clark · Post by **Dave Clark** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:06 am

4-Shipp wrote:Update:

More to follow on the second mortgage to finance the son's training!

Bruce

Oh but it's worth it Bruce. How else is he going to turn out to be a red hot Jet Jock

PS: Jim soloed in a Champ the first day it was legal. And it sure makes a Papa proud to be able to say he taught his son to fly.

blueldr · Post by **blueldr** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:28 am

Bruce,
If you're military, try going through USAA.

4-Shipp · Post by **4-Shipp** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:29 pm

Update: Still waiting on reply from AUA. She was confident that she could find coverage.

I had asked Travers to check with my underwriter to see when they would insure my son for solo flight. The answer was only after 100 hours in type - ouch!

I'll update when I hear more.

As for USAA, has anyone actually purchased aircraft insurance through them? I talked to them when we initially bought 9CP (2001) and at that time they did not do aircraft insurance. I have heard rumors to the contrary but have never talked to anyone who actually was insured with them.

Bruce

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:22 pm

Bruce

About 10 years ago I had my Cherokee and my Cub insured through USAA. The underwriter was AIG. All was great till USAA made a deal with USAIG for all their business. USAIG only insured my CUB because they had to as part of the deal but the price was not competitive so I went to AUA and back too AIG.

Don't know what USAA offers today.

Dave Clark · Post by **Dave Clark** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:08 am

Hey Bruce I'll bet he could get that 100 hours of dual If I loaned him a pencil

blueldr · Post by **blueldr** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:14 am

USAA does not insure airplanes directly. They insure you through USAA Casualty Insurance Co. USAA CIC farms it out to other insurers. You should call them and ask foe a quote.