Ski rigging

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:26 am

Bill
I haven't been able to get out with the Cub just yet. I just got the new bungees and finished the rigging brackets for the landing gear.
I might have tried today which probably was a perfect day but I had other commitments.

One other thing I need to work out is how to get the Cub from the hanger to the snow since they plow the taxi ways.

How do some of you other guys do it. Do you have a dolly of some sort?

I'll post pictures as soon as I get some ski time it don't worry but I don't think we'll have much snow after next week which is about how long it should take me to figure out how to move the Cub to the snow.

3958v · Post by **3958v** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:52 am

The fellow we got our skis from had a contraption that stuck in the hollow axle of the cub and then it had an offset to a wheel. the device could be over centered to support the plane on the wheel instead of the ski. Once the plane was transported to the snow the device could be removed. It works much the same as the wheels they put on the Enstrom helicopters to move them in and out of the hangar. It has been a little while since I saw him use them or even looked at them so I will try to get a look at them next time I go to the airport so that I can give you a better discription. Bill K

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:04 am

I thought of something like that Bill as I'm very familiar with helicopter wheels.

Two issues I'd have with that set up are, one, that the wheel mounted farther out on the axle would have more leverage to bend the axle itself.
Second, normally the castle nut which would hold either the wheel or the ski on would have a cotter pin through it and the axle effectively blocking the open axle.

jrenwick · Post by **jrenwick** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:37 pm

Friday I finished tweaking the rigging on my J3's ski installation, and yesterday I took it up for a few circuits around the pattern. It was snowing a little and the visibility was too poor to go anywhere, but there was enough snow on the ground to see how the skis work. This was my first time flying with skis. Whoo hoo! Almost as much fun as float flying!

Last night I dreamed of putting the skis on my 170. I'm going to fly the J3 on skis as much as I can first, though. There seem to be lots of ways to get in trouble, and until I learn how to avoid problems, it will be better in a lighter aircraft.

I hope you get lots of snow, Bruce!

John

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:50 pm

So John how did you move the airplane to the snow?

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:53 pm

As for the snow so far we have about 4 to 6 inches of snow laying on the ground which is more than I can remember getting by mid December in a LOT of years.

jrenwick · Post by **jrenwick** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:31 am

N9149A wrote:So John how did you move the airplane to the snow?

A friend of mine makes "ski dollies" for the Federal 1500s. On those skis, the pedestal has a 1" bushing through it, about half way up the pedestal, below the axle bushing. The dollies have a tube that fits through that bushing, a small utility wheel and tire on each side, and a long lever that rotates the wheels down and lifts the skis up. There's a nice commercial product that does this, but after a lot of searching, I can't find it. I know they had a nice web site with details and photos.

The older skis you bought don't have the bushing needed for dollies, but it can be added -- I've seen this done.

When I'm out to the airport again, I'll take some photos and send them to you.

Best Regards,

John

cessna170bdriver · Post by **cessna170bdriver** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:41 am

jrenwick wrote:Friday I finished tweaking the rigging on my J3's ski installation, and yesterday I took it up for a few circuits around the pattern. It was snowing a little and the visibility was too poor to go anywhere, but there was enough snow on the ground to see how the skis work. This was my first time flying with skis. Whoo hoo! Almost as much fun as float flying!

Last night I dreamed of putting the skis on my 170. I'm going to fly the J3 on skis as much as I can first, though. There seem to be lots of ways to get in trouble, and until I learn how to avoid problems, it will be better in a lighter aircraft.

I hope you get lots of snow, Bruce!

John

Are there any training or signoff requirements to be "legal" on skis?

Miles

jrenwick · Post by **jrenwick** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:16 pm

cessna170bdriver wrote: Are there any training or signoff requirements to be "legal" on skis?

None, but that doesn't mean there isn't a lot to learn.

John

Post by **GAHorn** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:57 pm

cessna170bdriver wrote:
Are there any training or signoff requirements to be "legal" on skis?

Miles

There's a 15 minute video that must be watched and your CFI must sign off on it, and it must be entered in your logbook. For $35, ($50 to non-TIC170A members or to TIC170A Board Members) I can mail you the logbook sign-off. Make the check out (check-out....get it?)

to TIC170A.
Most of the video is devoted to the opening and closing credits, with the main subject being to inform you that you should not plow the taxiway between your hangar and the snow.

cessna170bdriver · Post by **cessna170bdriver** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:49 pm

gahorn wrote: Most of the video is devoted to the opening and closing credits, with the main subject being to inform you that you should not plow the taxiway between your hangar and the snow.

Does that mean that you need to leave the hangar door open to blowing snow or rent a snow-making machine just to get the plane out of the hangar?

Miles

N3243A · Post by **N3243A** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:02 pm

jrenwick wrote: The dollies have a tube that fits through that bushing, a small utility wheel and tire on each side, and a long lever that rotates the wheels down and lifts the skis up. There's a nice commercial product that does this, but after a lot of searching, I can't find it. I know they had a nice web site with details and photos.

The outfit was called "Sled Dog Air" out of Brainerd MN and they did have a little website which is no longer working and I don't know if they are still in business or not. I spoke with them on the phone a few years ago when they were developing these ski lifts and they had a pretty nice set of these "cam-over" dollies using a removable lever which were designed to fit the smaller Federal and Aero skis (size 1500-2000's). These skis are fairly narrow and the cantilevered wheel off to the side do not impose as nearly high a load as wider skis like the Aero 3000 which is 16" wide. For these Aero 3000s and the Landes (which has no hole for the stub axle) they were recommending a true dolly in which you had to jack up the airplane to roll the dolly under. That sounded like a real pain so ended up not buying these dollies for my Aero 3000's. The true "cam-over" dollies for the samller skis were a bit pricey at about $500 a pair as I recall. They were nicely constructed however with powder coating and pnuematic tires.

Bruce

jrenwick · Post by **jrenwick** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:59 pm

N3243A wrote:The outfit was called "Sled Dog Air" out of Brainerd MN and they did have a little website which is no longer working and I don't know if they are still in business or not.

Yep! That's the thing I was looking for. Thanks!

John

johneeb · Post by **johneeb** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:52 am

Take a look at this WEB site, maybe one could adapt these things to move skied aircraft.

http://www.gojaks.com/

jrenwick · Post by **jrenwick** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:15 am

johneeb wrote:Take a look at this WEB site, maybe one could adapt these things to move skied aircraft.
http://www.gojaks.com/

This is a really nice solution for cars in a showroom, if a little pricey. For a Cub on skis, the solution is pretty simple and cheap, and can be home-made by anyone who can weld tubing. I'll post pictures of what I'm using, but it might not be before next week. My lift dollies break down so that I can stow them in my (extended) baggage compartment, as long as I'm not carrying anything else.

What I'm talking about is fine for a J3, and may be OK for a 120 or 140, but has no applicability to anything as heavy as a 170. For that, you'll need hydraulic wheel skis or wheel penetration skis if you have any need to move on a dry hard surface with them.

Best Regards,

John