Franklin Engines/220 hp

roger · Post by **roger** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:57 am

Hi I just want to pass this on, I've been working on a us manufactured Franklin( Gregg Lucas) is assembleing it and helping me gather the nessary eitems,He and Bruce have been very helpfull. But the important thing and one that gives me hope,is that the pols are getting ready to start production of the Franklin again, Rhumore, maybe, but good source. So if you are like me and slowly(when the green stuff accumilates) gathering the needed parts and assec. for an engine.lets hope that this piece of aviation history remains available to keep our steeds cruising, Gene N2628D

Stinson driver · Post by **Stinson driver** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 6:57 am

I have a Franklin in my stinson- its not a good motor- The guys on the stinson Forum are always having problems with their motors-
No one on this forum complains about the C145/o300 s in our 170s

Dave Clark · Post by **Dave Clark** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:54 pm

Stinson driver wrote:I have a Franklin in my stinson- its not a good motor- The guys on the stinson Forum are always having problems with their motors-
No one on this forum complains about the C145/o300 s in our 170s

Are you comparing the 165 to the C-145 or a brand new manufactured 220?

I don't think you can compare the 165 that has maybe been overhauled several times with parts that are very hard to find to a brand new factory 220. That would not be apples to apples. Many 165 overhauls have been with "service limits" parts due to availability plus I believe there is the heavy case vs. light case issue among others.

My choice between the 165 and a C-145 would be the 145 every time. Between the 145 and tha F220 new from the factory I'd have to take the Franklin.

Post by **GAHorn** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:17 pm

I believe that even the "new" 220 hp Franklins are becoming difficult to obtain parts for since the production of that engine is no longer.
The 150 hp Franklin in the earlier Stinsons is even worse. Absolutely no cranks exist at all for that engine, according to the Stinson club. A crank that doesn't meet service limits, or which fails otherwise, usually means a dead end for that owner. Finding a 165 hp replacement merely buys into another dead-end, while the "new" 220 isn't an approved replacement on it's own merits (completely disregarding the unavailability of a "new" 220 anyway.)
Rumors always abound about the Franklins. At Reklaw, a "Franklin Distributor" was there offering all kinds of future promises and repeats of the Poles re-mfring the engine ("This time it's really true!", they said.)

But all the "Distributor" had to offer of any consequence on their table was a comparison between the original Delco starter and a SkyTec starter, and a couple of surplus pistons. It's sad.

Dave Clark · Post by **Dave Clark** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:52 am

What I was trying to say is that I believe the 220's in the field are probably better engines than the 150's and 165's because they have been in production most recently and the parts availability problem for the 220 is just beginning.

Now if the Poles go back in production then one could consider an airplane with that engine but I for one would want to have a lot of spares on the shelf so I wouldn't have to rely on future production to support the engine in MY plane. I hate having to try to support things made out of unobtainium

I had a Jacobs L-6 (330hp) engine in my C195 which was never standard and a bit of a bastard engine. But it was the best engine for the airframe. The engine was a late WWII developement and never really got fully developed or in widespread use other than the Canadian Avro's. At any rate the parts, pistons in particular, were very hard to find. I was able to collect some really nice parts cheap (including a new set of pistons) so I had my lifetime supply. That's what you have to do for peace of mind with this kind of thing.

Kellym · Post by **Kellym** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 10:31 pm

Dave Clark wrote: Are you comparing the 165 to the C-145 or a brand new manufactured 220?

I don't think you can compare the 165 that has maybe been overhauled several times with parts that are very hard to find to a brand new factory 220. That would not be apples to apples. Many 165 overhauls have been with "service limits" parts due to availability plus I believe there is the heavy case vs. light case issue among others.

My choice between the 165 and a C-145 would be the 145 every time. Between the 145 and tha F220 new from the factory I'd have to take the Franklin.

Do you happen to have any data on relative engine wts between the O-300 and any of the Franklins. Or for the 210 Cont IO-360?

cessna170bdriver · Post by **cessna170bdriver** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 10:43 pm

Kellym wrote: Do you happen to have any data on relative engine wts between the O-300 and any of the Franklins. Or for the 210 Cont IO-360?

Check out the "official" info at the TCM site:

http://www.tcmlink.com/producthighlights/ENGTBL.PDF

Miles

blueldr · Post by **blueldr** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:04 am

Factory dry weight of the Continental IO-360 is 75 lbs. greater than the C-145/O-300.

Dave Clark · Post by **Dave Clark** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:50 pm

blueldr wrote:Factory dry weight of the Continental IO-360 is 75 lbs. greater than the C-145/O-300.

Wow. Does that include the props? If not then the installed weights would be even greater for the IO.

Post by **GAHorn** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:25 pm

Dry weight is only the engine after it's been removed from the shipping crate. Prop weight depends upon ...which prop? Which installation? (which airplane, approval basis, etc.) So the answer would have to be...no ...the prop is not included. Nor are the airframe-related accessories such as generator/alternator, elect. boost pumps, prop governor, air/filter box, baffles, etc. etc.

Dave Clark · Post by **Dave Clark** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:54 pm

gahorn wrote:Dry weight is only the engine after it's been removed from the shipping crate. Prop weight depends upon ...which prop? Which installation? (which airplane, approval basis, etc.) So the answer would have to be...no ...the prop is not included. Nor are the airframe-related accessories such as generator/alternator, elect. boost pumps, prop governor, air/filter box, baffles, etc. etc.

Yes I know George that's why I said "If not then the installed weights would be even greater for the IO"

My guess is the IO-360 with a constant speed prop would add close to 100lbs to the nose. That would surely make the airplane handle differently. Perhaps it requires the battery to be moved aft?

Post by **GAHorn** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:49 pm

In a similar comparison, the reason the O-470/IO-470 engine is not a common conversion is exactly for that reason. It's too heavy without other airframe modifications. Even if the battery or other ballast is placed aft, the tailfeathers are marginally effective. The 180/182 is not as "identical" as the 170 as many would assume.

blueldr · Post by **blueldr** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:13 pm

When I installed the IO-360 in my airplane I moved the battery back behind the baggage compartment via the Delair STC. I also installed the mid type C-180 gear legs that put the axle line 3 3/4" forward.
For the first year I ran it with a fixed pitch prop of 78" dia. and 60" pitch.The problem was that the oil temperature would decay after climb and settle at about 135 deg. at 2450 RPM in cruise. This is too cool. The fire in the cylinders was just too cool to keep the temperature up. I did not have a manifold pressure gauge installed with the FP prop.
The second year I installed a McC. 2A34C203-C/90DCA-8 constant speed prop as per the STC. This is the same prop that is used on a C-182. It added 35 lbs. on the nose. I then could pull the same power as before but at a lower RPM and a higher mnanifold pressure which raised the BMEP and kept the temperatures up to normal.
This combination makes a really great machine.
Unfortunately, I had a serious short circuit between the headset cups and ran the airplane of the runway. (Brain Fade!) That was three years ago and it may fly again in a couple of more years. I still cry sometimes at night.
The airplane handled well and the CG was fine. The IO-360 Continental is a really sweet running engine. It is VERY smooth and enjoys current support from the manufacturer.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:43 am

New Franklin Parts on way! Says Susan *Prall*
Coplete engines from 2cyl to 6cyl 220hp in 6 months. Fuel injected with higher TBO"S. I have my fingers crossed my sons and I have 2 C-170s and a M4 Maule with 220hp Franklins. Can't beat the power to weight ratio of these engines!
Mike