REPAINT/REBUILD ADVICE

Curtis Brown · Post by **Curtis Brown** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:54 am

Where's Dave? I am interested to know the outcome also.
Dave?

AR Dave · Post by **AR Dave** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:00 am

OK, I'm here! Had a lot of troubles just getting to the plane, so didn't get it until yesterday!
I LOST! As far as he was concerned, I could jump off a cliff! And let me tell you, we argued over it for 5 hrs.. He took the keys and said I wasn't getting them until I paid for the plane in full. Said we'd never had the conversation, where he assured me that he would stop the stripe were I'd drawn it on paper. Said I must've talked to someone else. He said he'd never gotten the "STOP HERE" circled reprint Traci gave him. I said well then, how come it's right there in your paper work folder. I could see it! He said someone must've put it there later. Anyway he just kept saying that it wasn't his fault and I should have communicated better. It didn't matter what evidence, writing, nothing, he'd just say "not so"! There is just not much one can do when dealing with someone like this! He's not the kind of person that wants to make things right! I found out that he didn't lay the striping out on mine anyway. In the end, if I wanted any changes then I'd have to pay for it!
I do not think I could recommend this paint shop to anyone else.
Gray Aircraft Restoration, Ozark AR.

Pico · Post by **Pico** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:17 am

AR Dave wrote:OK, I'm here! Had a lot of troubles just getting to the plane, so didn't get it until yesterday!
I LOST! As far as he was concerned, I could jump off a cliff! And let me tell you, we argued over it for 5 hrs.. He took the keys and said I wasn't getting them until I paid for the plane in full. Said we'd never had the conversation, where he assured me that he would stop the stripe were I'd drawn it on paper. Said I must've talked to someone else. He said he'd never gotten the "STOP HERE" circled reprint Traci gave him. I said well then, how come it's right there in your paper work folder. I could see it! He said someone must've put it there later. Anyway he just kept saying that it wasn't his fault and I should have communicated better. It didn't matter what evidence, writing, nothing, he'd just say "not so"! There is just not much one can do when dealing with someone like this! He's not the kind of person that wants to make things right! I found out that he didn't lay the striping out on mine anyway. In the end, if I wanted any changes then I'd have to pay for it!
I do not think I could recommend this paint shop to anyone else.
Gray Aircraft Restoration, Ozark AR.

Wow. Craziness. I'll be sure to file that name away in my memory - Gray Aircraft Restoration, Ozark, AR.

Since he could file a mechanics lein, holding on to your plane until litigation was finished, you may be better off to pay for the job and then sue him. There may not be any damages recovered, but it won't cost much to sue him and at least he'll have to defend himself, which might make him think twice before being dishonest and/or careless again.

Post by **GAHorn** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:49 am

I (respectfully) disagree with that.
There is no provision in the law for withholding the property of another without filing that mechanic's lien. Filing that lien is not a simple matter. He must obtain the judgment, then must file it with the county sherriff in order to enforce it. You could be home with your plane before his lawyer could even present the paperwork to a judge, much less for the judge to hear the case and make a ruling.
Take your plane home, and tell him to sue for payment. If it's too late for that, then sue for damages. I'll bet dollars to donuts he'll settle in some fashion with you. (Small claims court is cheap, and can handle most cases up to $5K-$7K without any atty required. Just you and him telling the judge what happened, and presenting your paperwork/evidence.)
Meanwhile, carefully wording your story (to keep it exactly accurate), and buying a small Ad in Trade-A-Plane and running your free ad in the Flypaper and here might make him more amenable to making some settlement. (It's always better to be P.O.'d than P'd ON!)

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:04 am

Sorry to hear that Dave.

I'd show him a picture of the plane after you put the sign on the side of the aircraft saying where the strip should have ended and where Gray aircraft Restoration thought it should end. ( I can help you with the picture) Then I'd explain how many fly-in events your going to attend like Sun N Fun, Oshcosh and every other fly-in in between and how many people are going to see that sign over the life of the paint say the next 15 years.

I'd copy him on the letter to the better business bureau.

I'd get an estimate to fix your plane and look into fileing a claim against him.

Kyle Wolfe · Post by **Kyle Wolfe** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:19 am

Gosh, Dave - sorry that what should have been one of life's best events has turned sour for you. Stick with it. Be firm.

Can't wait to see it at Petit Jean. Am guessing to all of us it won't be as big a deal as it is to you. But it's a shame the owner won't make it right.

Post by **GAHorn** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:32 am

Wow. That's actually an outstanding idea, Bruce. (You're scary!)

Dave, email or PM to me the exact address and contact info on that shop. I want to make certain there's no mistake when I respond to inquiry. I get about 2 a month asking for paint shop recommendations.

N2865C · Post by **N2865C** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:05 am

Did you make it clear to your paint shop that you plan to pursue legal action if he does not correct the problem. A good attorney can let you know exactly what you can and can't do in your state. I'm not a big fan of lawyers, but they do have their place, and this is a great example of when one might be used. Not necessarily to sue the paint shop, but first to tell you exactly what your rights are, and secondly, a letter from an attorney will really get the attention of any business owner. Think 300 lb. gorilla. All of that should take less than an hour of his time.

I think your first stop once you get your plane should be a high quality paint shop to get an estimate on how much they will charge to repair the damage that your painter did, and then go from there. Every state is different as to $$ limits, but I would think (as George pointed out) that you should be able to recover the cost of having your paint repaired in small claims court .

Good Luck

jc

Pico · Post by **Pico** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:54 am

gahorn wrote:I (respectfully) disagree with that.
There is no provision in the law for withholding the property of another without filing that mechanic's lien. Filing that lien is not a simple matter. He must obtain the judgment, then must file it with the county sherriff in order to enforce it. You could be home with your plane before his lawyer could even present the paperwork to a judge, much less for the judge to hear the case and make a ruling.
Take your plane home, and tell him to sue for payment. If it's too late for that, then sue for damages. I'll bet dollars to donuts he'll settle in some fashion with you. (Small claims court is cheap, and can handle most cases up to $5K-$7K without any atty required. Just you and him telling the judge what happened, and presenting your paperwork/evidence.)
Meanwhile, carefully wording your story (to keep it exactly accurate), and buying a small Ad in Trade-A-Plane and running your free ad in the Flypaper and here might make him more amenable to making some settlement. (It's always better to be P.O.'d than P'd ON!)

Thanks for the clarification. I have heard that (at least here in CO) that you can't take a car home without paying - sort of an automatic mechanic's lein. I assumed that's how it worked.

AR Dave · Post by **AR Dave** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:43 am

The scene at the paint shop wasn't pretty! I've got to rest my brain a little. Also we spent 3 hrs with masking tape, me showing him how the picture was supposed to turn out and him telling me why the lines just couldn't line up that way. When we finally got it right, I had him take a picture. He's working up a bid to fix it, so I want to wait and see what that comes too$ Also, I need to focus on Petit Jean! Kyle, you are correct! The plane looks nice, just could've looked a lot better.

Post by **GAHorn** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:03 pm

Paint schemes are a combination of a form of artwork and craft. The craftsman's job is to please the customer with good quality workmanship. The artisan's job is to please the patron's eye. Both tasks are part and parcel of an airplane's refinishing.
Before he sprayed paint, he should have obtained approval of the lines and layout. If you didn't sign an agreement giving him blanket authority to complete the job as he chose, then he has an obligation to perform the corrective actions to your satisfaction in accordance with your originaly supplied drawings/specs.
His most egregious actions is his attitude toward you as a paying customer. If the restarant broke the egg yolks then the correct response is for them to do it over....and apologize for the delay. I won't forget the rude or abusive shop who won't be responsible for their poor work and then attempt to bully me with arrogance.

AR Dave · Post by **AR Dave** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:49 am

On the flight home I had to hold the yoke forward, with the trim rolled all the way forward. Today I found that the trim rod had been adjusted to nuetral with the trim wheel full forward. In other words it would go from nuetral to way up, but no downward trim. I had to reach up in the hole and tighten the nuts because they were loose with no threads showing, but it's good now.
No nav lights were working. So I replaced the broken bulb on the tail. And pulled the right nav light off to rehook the ground wire that had been left off. I had to scrape the socket because there was a lot of overspray keeping the bulb from contact. But it's working again. Guess tomorrow I'll go hook the ground up on the left side. The strobe isn't working over there either, so it probably wasn't plugged back into the power source. I've been scraping off the grease certs that were painted over. Today I realized that there is no paint behind the door hinge, so when the door is opened it looks bad.
I ran into a fellar today that said when he took his plane back for a silver dollar size blemish on the cowling, Don Gray said, it's not our fault and walked away. Said he wouldn't even listen! I also found out that the cost of the job is consistently $2000 more than the bid. Remember those windows that I just had polished, I'm having the new scratches taken out this weekend. Belt buckles on the front corners of windshield and I guess they just layed my bubble window doors on the floor, cause the outer curve of the bubble is all scratched. That other guy had to have his windows redone after Gray's painted his plane also.
Just typical stuff you'd expect from a fresh paint job. But we'll get it all fixed back up!

thammer · Post by **thammer** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:56 am

AR Dave wrote:On the flight home I had to hold the yoke forward, with the trim rolled all the way forward. Today I found that the trim rod had been adjusted to nuetral with the trim wheel full forward. In other words it would go from nuetral to way up, but no downward trim. I had to reach up in the hole and tighten the nuts because they were loose with no threads showing, but it's good now.
No nav lights were working. So I replaced the broken bulb on the tail. And pulled the right nav light off to rehook the ground wire that had been left off. I had to scrape the socket because there was a lot of overspray keeping the bulb from contact. But it's working again. Guess tomorrow I'll go hook the ground up on the left side. The strobe isn't working over there either, so it probably wasn't plugged back into the power source. I've been scraping off the grease certs that were painted over. Today I realized that there is no paint behind the door hinge, so when the door is opened it looks bad.
I ran into a fellar today that said when he took his plane back for a silver dollar size blemish on the cowling, Don Gray said, it's not our fault and walked away. Said he wouldn't even listen! I also found out that the cost of the job is consistently $2000 more than the bid. Remember those windows that I just had polished, I'm having the new scratches taken out this weekend. Belt buckles on the front corners of windshield and I guess they just layed my bubble window doors on the floor, cause the outer curve of the bubble is all scratched. That other guy had to have his windows redone after Gray's painted his plane also.
Just typical stuff you'd expect from a fresh paint job. But we'll get it all fixed back up!

I wouldn't expect that. I'd expect him to fix all those things to my satisfaction at his cost. That's just plain crappy work and disregard for his customers. Why is he still in business? This guy goes on my list of places not to touch with a ten foot pole.

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:31 am

Was he supposed to give you back an airworthy aircraft? I hope your documenting everything not airworthy as welll as the damage he will need to pay for. Could be you need to visit the Feds as well as a judge.

N2865C · Post by **N2865C** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:36 am

Did you pay with a check? If it were me I would put a stop payment on it first thing in the morning.
jc