Good words, Kyle.
Thos. Jefferson was quoted to say, "The un-needed bargain and the needed, cheaply acquired but useless, is no bargain."
What to offer a long time owner
Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher
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rudymantel
- Posts: 451
- Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2002 4:03 pm
Gahorn, is that a typeo? Didn't you mean duress? 
These cross wheel gear how do they work? Are they a ball and socket arangment, or do they have two axles? What makes them track in tandam? What keeps them straight? Do they shimey like a nose wheel? If you hit a brake hard with them straight will the brake wheel go in to cross wind mod? TP.
These cross wheel gear how do they work? Are they a ball and socket arangment, or do they have two axles? What makes them track in tandam? What keeps them straight? Do they shimey like a nose wheel? If you hit a brake hard with them straight will the brake wheel go in to cross wind mod? TP.I must be okay cause, I haven't gotten a letter from the FAA.
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Bruce Fenstermacher
- Posts: 10318
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am
Not really sure but I think they are a ball and socket arrangement with some type of spring loading which kepts them straight till the load is exceeded.
Yes if you hit a brake hard they will kick out and you go sideways. Very unnerving till you get used to it.
Yes if you hit a brake hard they will kick out and you go sideways. Very unnerving till you get used to it.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
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rudymantel
- Posts: 451
- Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2002 4:03 pm
TP, having owned and flown a Cessna 180 with crosswind gear back in the '60's I'll try to answer your queries. (But my memory isn't that great)
There is one axle per wheel. Each axle is hinged near the gear leg to swivel left and right. The axle is normally held in the usual perpendicular straight ahead aligned position like any axle. There is a curved phenolic block attached to the axle. It is held in place by a cam-like device. When enough sideways load is placed on the wheel the cam releases the axle allowing it to swivel. (I believe the cam is spring loaded)
Both axles swivel because the cam tension is the same but if only one starts to swivel it would impart a sideways load on the other, so they always swivel together. You wind up rolling kinda sideways and feeling like a passenger but generally safe unless the runway is narrow.
The object when landing an airplane is to keep it aligned with the runway. Failing to do that the airplane starts to go sideways and that's when ground loops and other unpleasantnesses occur. The crosswind gear prevents these undesireable events by allowing the sideways motion to change the direction of the axles rather than the axle transfering these side loads to the airplane with the aforementioned unfortunate results.
It's actually a very neat device and can save a clumsy pilot from a misfortune. The Goodyear crosswind gear also features some of the best brakes I've ever used. The disk is huge. I really liked those brakes.
Personally, I didn't care for the crosswind feature because I was landing on some very narrow strips and roads and disabled it by drilling a screw into each cam and into the phenolic block attached to the axle.
Hope this helps,
Rudy
There is one axle per wheel. Each axle is hinged near the gear leg to swivel left and right. The axle is normally held in the usual perpendicular straight ahead aligned position like any axle. There is a curved phenolic block attached to the axle. It is held in place by a cam-like device. When enough sideways load is placed on the wheel the cam releases the axle allowing it to swivel. (I believe the cam is spring loaded)
Both axles swivel because the cam tension is the same but if only one starts to swivel it would impart a sideways load on the other, so they always swivel together. You wind up rolling kinda sideways and feeling like a passenger but generally safe unless the runway is narrow.
The object when landing an airplane is to keep it aligned with the runway. Failing to do that the airplane starts to go sideways and that's when ground loops and other unpleasantnesses occur. The crosswind gear prevents these undesireable events by allowing the sideways motion to change the direction of the axles rather than the axle transfering these side loads to the airplane with the aforementioned unfortunate results.
It's actually a very neat device and can save a clumsy pilot from a misfortune. The Goodyear crosswind gear also features some of the best brakes I've ever used. The disk is huge. I really liked those brakes.
Personally, I didn't care for the crosswind feature because I was landing on some very narrow strips and roads and disabled it by drilling a screw into each cam and into the phenolic block attached to the axle.
Hope this helps,
Rudy
Bear with me Rudy I trained in a tricycle. As I understand what you have said I have landed with a slite crab on. Not a good thing; not even in a tricycle. Lets say the wind is coming from the left (left cross wind) . I'm not having a good day with crosscontrol, have touched down slitly crabbed. Wheels pop into crosscontrol mod. , I'm traveling down the runway sideways. I put a little more crosscontrol in to straighten the planes longitudinal axis with the runway. Now what happens? When I made the correction did the wheels continue there direction of travel straight down the runway and lock back in? Or are they still in crosswind mode with the planes longitudinal axis in alignment with the runway. The travel direction of the plane is now down the runway and to the right? 
TP
TPI must be okay cause, I haven't gotten a letter from the FAA.
TP-
rudymantel
- Posts: 451
- Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2002 4:03 pm
TP, when you're going down that runway in crosswind mode (as I recall- and remember this was more than 40 years ago) it's probably best to just let her roll till you're almost stopped.
In the situation you described, the fuselage will be angled into the wind or to the left. If you apply right rudder to align the fuselage, the wheels would possibly pop out of crosswind mode. But it's probably best to just let her roll slightly sideways.
Remember, the reason that you normally want to land with the fuselage aligned with the runway is so the wheels roll straight and with no sideways drift. But in this case your crosswind gear has already taken care of that.
Rudy
In the situation you described, the fuselage will be angled into the wind or to the left. If you apply right rudder to align the fuselage, the wheels would possibly pop out of crosswind mode. But it's probably best to just let her roll slightly sideways.
Remember, the reason that you normally want to land with the fuselage aligned with the runway is so the wheels roll straight and with no sideways drift. But in this case your crosswind gear has already taken care of that.
Rudy
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Bruce Fenstermacher
- Posts: 10318
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am
TP
In the 15 or so hours I've flown my friends plane with the crosswind gear I have never had them kick out on landing. In 10 years of watching Leroy land his plane I've never seen it kick out on landing either. Taxi and then take off yes.
When they kick out in taxi and on a take off roll it is very disorienting. You only have differental braking for steering as your tail wheel will be unlocked and sideways and you are traveling sideways down the taxiway or runway which is unnatural.
I always try to kick the wheels back in with the brakes but Leroy who has been flying this plane for 35 years doesn't care if it's sideways or not.
Based on my experiance taxiing and taking off, if the gear kicked out on landing, I'm pretty sure I'd be doing everything possible to slow the plane down and nearly to a stop before I tryed to kick the wheels straight. I also believe that the best way to use the gear capability landing in a crosswind is to already be in a crab all the way to touch down where the gear will hopefully kick out and your direction of travel will continue straight down the runway.
I think if you are cross controlling and attemting to land normally with the fuselage straight down the runway and then have a side load on the gear which causes them to kick out, you will be buying some runway lights or worse. You just won't be able to adjust to the quick change in direction.
In the 15 or so hours I've flown my friends plane with the crosswind gear I have never had them kick out on landing. In 10 years of watching Leroy land his plane I've never seen it kick out on landing either. Taxi and then take off yes.
When they kick out in taxi and on a take off roll it is very disorienting. You only have differental braking for steering as your tail wheel will be unlocked and sideways and you are traveling sideways down the taxiway or runway which is unnatural.
I always try to kick the wheels back in with the brakes but Leroy who has been flying this plane for 35 years doesn't care if it's sideways or not.
Based on my experiance taxiing and taking off, if the gear kicked out on landing, I'm pretty sure I'd be doing everything possible to slow the plane down and nearly to a stop before I tryed to kick the wheels straight. I also believe that the best way to use the gear capability landing in a crosswind is to already be in a crab all the way to touch down where the gear will hopefully kick out and your direction of travel will continue straight down the runway.
I think if you are cross controlling and attemting to land normally with the fuselage straight down the runway and then have a side load on the gear which causes them to kick out, you will be buying some runway lights or worse. You just won't be able to adjust to the quick change in direction.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
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rudymantel
- Posts: 451
- Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2002 4:03 pm
You can make a normal crosswind landing and the crosswind gear does not kick out. As Bruce said, it ususally happens when taxiing and on a narrow runway, road or taxiway it's disconcerting.
If the airplane you're interested in buying is otherwise nice, I wouldn't let the crosswind gear dissuade you. It's not a bad feature.
Rudy
If the airplane you're interested in buying is otherwise nice, I wouldn't let the crosswind gear dissuade you. It's not a bad feature.
Rudy
Rudy, I was just intrested in how it worked an what effect it has on the aircraft. It can be disabled or removed. No biggy. Dave, who are you calling a yankee. Didn't your mother teach you about name calling? I'm no more a yank than you are a rebe. Unless you can produce court record's proving your birth was before Lee's surrender. In which case I will personaly nominate you as the oldest living member of the cessna 170 association. I'm a American; not a german-american, not a african-american, nor british-american. Just plain American. My ancestors, Casper Schaeffer ( also written Shaver/Shever) who arrived on this continent on Sept. 16, 1738 was a ardent patriot who served in the New Jersey's Provincial Congress from 1776 to 1779. His son's Peter Bernet, Abraham and Isaac Shaver served in the military forces of the state from 1775 to 1781 to form this country. Alexander C. Shaffer Served from 1861 to 1868-9 in the Second New York Cavalry to keep the United States as such. Casper Bernhardt and Sayre Shafer served in the Second World War to presurve this country. Although ower family name's spelling has changed over the years ower country's name has not! I am a citizen of the United States of America. Nothing more, nothing less. My ancestors have made it possible to say this. I AM NOT A YANKEE. My great uncle Captian Alexander C. Shaffer was. He died long ago perhaps you have outlived him. Paul D. Shafer
I must be okay cause, I haven't gotten a letter from the FAA.
Born in St. Joseph's Hospital, Hot Springs, Arkansas, descended from "Rebels" who fought the Brits, and "Rebels" who fought the "Yanks" on my mother's side, and from a father who was a "Yankee" who moved from Conneticut to Houston during the Great Depression and fought the Germans in a B-24 from Britain, ....I'm a Yankee. Ask any foreigner, as if their opinion counted. 
" There is no North nor South, no East nor West. There is only these United States, Indivisible, Now and forever." - Sam Watkins, soldier, C.S.A., author of "Co. Aytch", a first hand account of a confederate soldier who fought in every major battle of the Army of Tennessee. Well worth reading if you love the United States.
" There is no North nor South, no East nor West. There is only these United States, Indivisible, Now and forever." - Sam Watkins, soldier, C.S.A., author of "Co. Aytch", a first hand account of a confederate soldier who fought in every major battle of the Army of Tennessee. Well worth reading if you love the United States.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
TP - Where did you come up with the idea that I was talking to you? 
Honestly, after your reply, I went back to see who and where you came from. But I sure know now, all the way back to Sept 16, 1738.
When I log on, I check to see if someone new has joined the group. Then I pull up their profile to see if they live in my area. It's disappointing to discover the location not listed, like the last two. So I wrote George, that I wish it were part of the rules, that we list our location.
As for the Yankee tease! I was referring to a Geographic Region defined in the American Heritage Dictionary as, a native or inhabitant of a Northern State, no insult intended. Please make allowance that I have grown up in a different generation in which name calling has been desensitized to even being a term of endearment. I apologize if I offended any of you, especially those of you whom were friends with Tyler. As for me needing to produce court records proving I’m a Rebel, no need for that. I still have my Rebel Letter Jacket from Robert E Lee High School.
N146YankeeSoutherner - maybe you should be coming to our annual family reunions in Hot Springs?
This has got to be one of the most comical forums!
Honestly, after your reply, I went back to see who and where you came from. But I sure know now, all the way back to Sept 16, 1738.
When I log on, I check to see if someone new has joined the group. Then I pull up their profile to see if they live in my area. It's disappointing to discover the location not listed, like the last two. So I wrote George, that I wish it were part of the rules, that we list our location.
As for the Yankee tease! I was referring to a Geographic Region defined in the American Heritage Dictionary as, a native or inhabitant of a Northern State, no insult intended. Please make allowance that I have grown up in a different generation in which name calling has been desensitized to even being a term of endearment. I apologize if I offended any of you, especially those of you whom were friends with Tyler. As for me needing to produce court records proving I’m a Rebel, no need for that. I still have my Rebel Letter Jacket from Robert E Lee High School.
N146YankeeSoutherner - maybe you should be coming to our annual family reunions in Hot Springs?
This has got to be one of the most comical forums!
