The International Cessna 170 Association

Bruce Fenstermacher wrote: I have the impression that the $100K is extremely standard in the airplane insurance world. In other words in having this policy limit I'm acting as responsible as most. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

Bruce:

You have identified a conundrum to which there is no good answer unless you are already broke, hence judgement proof. Having a small policy limit (I consider $100k small) almost guarantees that in the event of a serious accident, you will get sued and a pilot's personal assets will be put at risk. Having a large limit means that almost certainly the policy will be like having a financial lightening rod and you will definitely get sued but the first $1M or 2M of the insurance company's money will first go towards your defense. The plaintiff's attorney knows that the more dollars consumed in legal defense expense, the less are readily available for their claims. My sense is that they are more amenable to settle within the policy limits.

When I was young and virtually broke, $100K was probably more than I needed. Now I am not not quite in the same situation and have more to lose.

Fly as many people as you can. The memories you create for yourself and others outweigh any of the risks associated. Carry a insurance policy for liability and have at it! Can't tell you how many rides I have given over the years and I never once worried about it. Maybe I'm naive and reckless, but who cares.

Just this last weekend I gave rides to 8 of the little kids in my kids pre-school class. What a time!!

I too have thought of this problem. It always seemed to me like the average liability policy fo aviation has very low limits. I have used two things to limit my exposure. One any young person that qualifies I will sign up as a young eagle regaurdless of wether or not the flight is part of an event. Another thing I do not give rides in weather that is not good or do anything which could ever be considered reckless. Over the years I have given lots of rides and have no regrets. As far as I am concerned the rewards far exceed the risks. Bill K

Aryana wrote:The minimum liability insurance requirements for private passenger vehicles in CA is laughably low.

$15,000 for injury/death to one person.
$30,000 for injury/death to more than one person.
$5,000 for damage to property.

That's like having no insurance at all. Crazy!

It's too bad we don't have access to an umbrella policy that has our aviation policy as the underlying limits - like many of us use to provide larger limits than offerred by our typical auto/homeowner policies. I've never seen or heard of these available for aviation policies.

Illinois Auto insurance requirement is only slightly better then California's.

You are in compliance with the mandatory insurance law if you have vehicle liability insurance in the following minimum amounts:
•$25,000 - injury or death of one person in an accident
•$50,000 - injury or death of more than one person in an accident
•$20,000 - damage to property of another person

Well, I've learned something. The minimums in all the states are much lower than I thought, and I'm personally carrying ten times the minimum required in Minnesota.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_ ... ted_States

Simple rules of life: Stay in bed. Take no risks. Carry big insurance policies. (The larger your liability limits... increases the amount of legal representation you will have in court.)

The only time I've ever requested someone present a signature... was for a parent's written permission for their kid to take a ride with me.

The only legal advice I've ever been offered on "release of liability" suggested that it will never stand up in court because the signer will likely claim that they were exposed to risks they were unqualified to assess.... and therefore had no fore-knowledge to judge.

I, like so many of you, have given a lot of rides to both adults and children, at their request or I have offered to do so. I also carry the standard $1MM limit per accident and $100k limit per person. As has been said, if you feel you need or want higher limits then see what is available. As Kyle mentioned, carrying an umbrella policy provides additional coverage and "might" cause an insurance carrier to work harder to defend an insured in the event of a claim, but finding a carrier to provide the umbrella coverage on your aircraft may be difficult and expensive.

As George pointed out, lawyers love to see high limits for liability whether on aircraft or automobiles. Its those deep pockets that entice involved lawsuits. If you are a careful pilot and carry standard limits it shows you are responsible. No matter how close the friend or relative may be in the event of an injury or death all bets are off. Just be careful and selective who you take up. I think it is important to make sure you have parents permission to take their minor children flying. A waiver of liability form is nice, but most likely won't be of any value other than to show that the parents, or whomever, were agreeable to go flying with you. Look at an airline ticket sometimes and see how their liability is limited.

I think there have been two Young Eagle fatalities in the history of the program; it might be interesting to research the legal outcome.

Any one have their aircraft under an LLC to reduce some of this risk? I know some debate that an LLC isn't all the protection it is said to be, but something to consider.

counsellj wrote:Any one have their aircraft under an LLC to reduce some of this risk? I know some debate that an LLC isn't all the protection it is said to be, but something to consider.

Jughead wouldn't the pilot have to be the LLC to protect him or her from liability. Maybe this could work now that Corporations are people.

I wonder if boaters go thru this conversation when they take the neighbor's kid out and teach them how to water ski

Or when your kid's best friend borrows their mini-bike for the first time.

Speak softly and carry a big insurance policy.

LLC only protects one bus. partner's personal investment from the liability transgressions committed by another partner (according to lawyer/pilot friend who talked me out of it.)
So, if YOU are the owner/pilot... what did that do for you? Nada.