The International Cessna 170 Association

bagarre wrote:http://www.ebay.com/itm/BEECHCRAFT-BONA ... 2c&vxp=mtr

I wonder if those would work and what it would take to get approved.

I think those risers might be a help in modifying the O-300 exhaust but not much else. I doubt that the turn at the back of the exhaust manifold could even be used. The price is way out of line.
Jim

Another update. Responding to a question elsewhere
I bought the engine from Dawson Aircraft Salvage in Arkansas. That’s; ARK CAN SAW. They had it listed for $6,900 and thought it did not have a VAR crankshaft. So I was able to talk them down to $5,800. It turned out to have a VAR crank shaft a savings of $5,500. There are plenty of non VAR Crank shaft engines out there. The back engine off of the Sky Master I bought my engine off of for example is available from Dawson it has as I remember 1200 hours and a non VAR crank shaft. I have the logs. They reduced the price down to $4,000 something and that could probably be negotiated down some more. The back engine off of a normally aspirated Sky master is a IO360 D which has an overly long oil filler tube on it. The other thing that bothers some people is that these engines are not the B series engines or bumpy back engines that have the larger crankshaft in them making the IO360-D into an IO360-DB. Continental I am told will not take a non B series engine in trade against a rebuilt B series engine. I have not actually investigated this myself but in either case the core value of a ran out TCM IO360 to TCM is $14,000 making buying a core engine to trade in a good value. If an engine is going to be field overhauled or repaired such as mine. Even if I had not found a VAR crankshaft engine and had to buy a new crankshaft. The engine prior to having anything done to it would have only cost $11,100 still a good value for a low time engine with only 980 hours since Factory remanufacture like the one I found. The issues with any salvage engine are what you find on tear down. The hits I have taken on mine are one cylinder severely pitted #6 cylinder and #5 Cylinder exhaust valve stuck and hit the top of the piston. In the event I was able to buy two engine ready overhauled standard dimension cylinders for $600 each including new rings. The lifters are lightly pitted requiring replacement or reconditioning. 12 times $35 or $85 depending on which way I go. Actually reconditioning is a good option because these lifters have already ran 980 hours and have passed the infant mortality zone. Something new lifters are known for having issues with, that’s with all engines. The Crankshaft and camshaft reconditioning and inspections cost me less than $1,000. Even having the mains turned .010. The shocker was that the .010 under main bearing set was $1500. The TCM IO360 seems to have in the GUM beating internet a bad reputation. I believe undeserved. I would not get an A series engine as they are real old and original design that did have problems. They were installed in early Sky Masters and USAF O2A’s. 80 inches is the longest prop for this STC and I am getting one overhauled for $4,300. I found an overhauled Prop governor for $650. Had it inspected, serviced and set up for my engine at no cost for the trade in value of the governor I took off of the engine I received. I found a dual manifold Fuel pressure gage of the correct PN for $100. And had it overhauled for $250. Every dimension in the engine I bought has checked out to be within new limits not serviceable limits. This is not unusual for first run engines. I bought a 12 volt gear drive alternator for $250 from White industries off of a Cessna 150. I turned out to be a low time alternator, one brush had no wear on it at all and looked new inside I cleaned and serviced it and chose not to installed the new bearings I had already bought for it. The total cost for having all of the steel parts magna fluxed and the crankcase zy-glowed was around $1,500. These were all incredible deals for me including the close relationship I have built with Tom Anderson in a short time. This takes a lot of research and knowledge that if you are paying some else to do it would just about kill the deal I am guessing. The engine is almost ready to install.

That’s all for now,
Jim

Metal Master wrote:This takes a lot of research and knowledge that if you are paying some else to do it would just about kill the deal I am guessing.

The research and parts hunting is the one thing I am still able to do. The motor, mount and exhaust is being farmed out as it exceeds my abilities. Not sure what the final price will be but I'll feel better flying behind a new crank and case anyway.

But yes, it would far exceed the price of the plane to taxi it up to a shop and fly away with the 337 filed.

I am excited! I get to go pick up the welded engine mount this afternoon. I will test fit it to the jig and then have it magnaflux inspected. I am going to check fit on the jig with my oil cooler installed on the jigged engine to be sure of clearance all around. Pictures will follow.
Jim

Did you decide to go with the modified O-300 exhaust or another route?

bagarre wrote:Did you decide to go with the modified O-300 exhaust or another route?

I am actually waiting to see how the exhaust fits with the engine mount on. And whether it is easier to modify the O-300 exhaust or the Hawk XP exhaust so I have not decided yet. I was just over at Tom,s about an hour ago and looking at his modified 0-300 exhaust on the 172 with the IO360. It may be 6 of one and a half dozen of the other as to which one is the more difficult to modify and make fit.
Jim

Jim & David,
The exhaust system was one of the more difficult parts of this conversion. While converting the O-300 exhaust took a lot of time it has worked well for me and the cabin heat with the combined heat muffs going to the cabin is impressive.

When I did modify the O-300 exhaust I followed one of Tom's suggestions that to achieve the needed angle for the heat muffs to clear the motor mount I chamfered the exhaust flanges and had the stub pipes come out at the needed angle. If I were to do it again I would have the pipe exit straight out of the flange and then make the necessary angle change.

They guy that's making my exhaust has done the O-300 mod before and he says it's a lot heck of a lot of work.
Thus the reason he really wants the hawk XP exhaust to work.

I would really like to go the 337 header route with a 2 into 1 Y pipe. It seems to be so much less work. If only the FAA had an "If it Fits" clause for things like this.
If I need to chop up one exhaust and weld the crap out of it, why can't I use something that doesnt need chopped up and do less welding?
It shouldn't be this complicated just to install an exhaust

johneeb wrote:Jim & David,
The exhaust system was one of the more difficult parts of this conversion. While converting the O-300 exhaust took a lot of time it has worked well for me and the cabin heat with the combined heat muffs going to the cabin is impressive.

When I did modify the O-300 exhaust I followed one of Tom's suggestions that to achieve the needed angle for the heat muffs to clear the motor mount I chamfered the exhaust flanges and had the stub pipes come out at the needed angle. If I were to do it again I would have the pipe exit straight out of the flange and then make the necessary angle change.

170 progress 2004-02-14 003.jpg

That looks so CLEAN!!!!

Looks like the exhaust is further away from the mounts than an XP exhaust and likely better for the mount. Looks like it would weigh less as well.

I received my engine mount back from Magnetic particle inspection this week and it passed with no defects. I bolted it to the engine with the “donuts” and spacers and Lord mounts to check fit against the engine. I found no issues there. Now I can take it off and paint it.
In one of the pictures attached you will see why the stock Hawk XP exhaust will not fit. I tried reversing the exhaust and it will not fit in that direction because it will not fit inside the cowling. It may be able to be modified to fit but I will not know the answer to that until I am fitting it on my build up frame later.
Regards, Jim

bagarre wrote:Did you decide to go with the modified O-300 exhaust or another route?

After considering the issues with attempting to modify the 336 –Hawk XP exhaust I have decided to go with the O-300 exhaust modification. I sold the Hawk XP Exhaust to Tom Anderson for him to use with a guy doing a 172 TCM IO360 Conversion it will work perfectly for that. Sale pending inspection. I recently had my Hanlon Wilson mufflers overhauled and it would be a shame to give those up. I like Johneb’s exhaust and heat inlet configuration so well that I am going to duplicate that with a few slight differences. It is the STC’s exhaust design anyway less the Baritone outlets. The notes say in the STC drawings that The Hawk XP exhaust can be used on the later serial number aircraft (read Stepped fire wall of the 172s and 175s). I have been working on my TIG welding skills and plan to modify the O-300 exhaust myself. I just need to get another bottle of Argon and an additional flow regulator to purge the inside of the tubes during welding operations. The two pictures attached show the Hawk XP exhaust installed on a Hawk XP and the mount to exhaust problem on the 170 which are only the beginning of the issues.
Regards,
Jim

For anyone involved in the TCM IO-360 conversion, please be advised that I still have a nice set of IO-360 exhaust headers advertised in our trademart forum.

I am off for Christmas vacation through the fourth of January. So I have had time to weld up my assembly frame, get the engine mount painted and bolted to the frame. The firewall installed on the frame is off of the 170A removed when I repaired the ground loop damage. I plan to attach plywood to the back of the fire wall and then put a sheet metal lip on the plywood simulating the cowl attach. In this way I should be able to take the cowl off of the 170 and screw it temporarily to the buildup jig and be able to fit all of the fuel lines, exhaust, and induction system inside the cowl before I actually have to install it on the airplane.

I might want to put in the later B style hot air distribution duct on the inside of the firewall since your right there now.