To buy or not to buy

Extrakatana · Post by **Extrakatana** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:14 pm

Have found what looks to be a cream puff B model. Interior is great exterior looks to be great removal of all of the inspection hatches shows the interior of wings and fuselage to be in super condition. I printed out the type certification and all AD's and all have been complied and are evident in the logbooks. But here is my problem has been sitting idle for 12 months at a time for the last six years. Annuals are still being done and entries are made into the logbook where changed, oil filter is changed annually, oil is changed annually and then the plane is run for two hours enough to get to a good operating temperature and then shut down for another 12 months. What else, specifically with the oh O-300 engine should be looked for? We have access to a Boroscope so we can check the cylinders but not really sure what to check for past that. I am considering running the engine for a couple of hours to get to operating temperature and then changing the oil filter and cutting open. Besides an oil filter inspection, comp test and with boroscope,check cylinders not sure what else to do to avoid guessing about the bearings. Cam, etc Any suggestions? There is no oil analysis records

bagarre · Post by **bagarre** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:25 pm

Does the log book say the engine was prepared for long term storage after each run?
A year is a log time for anything to sit still like that.

hilltop170 · Post by **hilltop170** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:46 pm

Where and how has the plane been stored? 12 year storage in the desert might be ok, 12 years in Key West might not unless in a climate-controlled hangar. With the plane sitting anywhere that long, it's going to be a crap shoot with the engine(rust in cylinders, oil pan corrosion, stuck/frozen lifters, hard/deteriorated gaskets, hoses, and seals, etc). The instruments and radios will likely need attention as well. It's going to cost some money to get back in the air no matter what.

I regularly store planes in Alaska and Texas for up to six months at a time and have for many years. But then I fly them regularly for several months between storage periods. Compression tests and oil analysis show no problems.

Just figure your risk into your offer. Engine overhauls are $25,000 if you pay someone else to do it right. Engines and all other accessories can be replaced or rebuilt but a good clean straight fuselage with no damage or repaired-correctly damage is getting harder to find.

Decisions, decisions........

Extrakatana · Post by **Extrakatana** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:02 pm

N Texas and always hangared (not climate cntrld), and no the engine has not been pickled. AS 15-50 is changed every year as is filter with only a couple hours in between changes. Exterior of engine looks almost flawless. No rust on airframe either. I welcome any ideas or tests you would do if you were in my shoes. Believe me... I have thought of all the "what ifs."

Is there an additional filter screen anywhere like on the Lycoming's? This plane has the spin on filter

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:29 pm

Extrakatana wrote:Besides an oil filter inspection, comp test and with boroscope,check cylinders not sure what else to do to avoid guessing about the bearings. Cam, etc Any suggestions? There is no oil analysis records

Nothing else to do. If it doesn't leak oil or gas I wouldn't worry much about the engine.

A plane as nice as you think this is is probably known by members. We've got lots of them from Texas. You might want to check with a few to insure the plane is as nice as you think.

canav8 · Post by **canav8** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:12 am

Extrakatana wrote:Have found what looks to be a cream puff B model. Interior is great exterior looks to be great removal of all of the inspection hatches shows the interior of wings and fuselage to be in super condition. I printed out the type certification and all AD's and all have been complied and are evident in the logbooks. But here is my problem has been sitting idle for 12 months at a time for the last six years. Annuals are still being done and entries are made into the logbook where changed, oil filter is changed annually, oil is changed annually and then the plane is run for two hours enough to get to a good operating temperature and then shut down for another 12 months. What else, specifically with the oh O-300 engine should be looked for? We have access to a Boroscope so we can check the cylinders but not really sure what to check for past that. I am considering running the engine for a couple of hours to get to operating temperature and then changing the oil filter and cutting open. Besides an oil filter inspection, comp test and with boroscope,check cylinders not sure what else to do to avoid guessing about the bearings. Cam, etc Any suggestions? There is no oil analysis records

Where is the aircraft located? D

C170U2 · Post by **C170U2** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:36 am

Throw caution to the wind and buy it! Fly the crap out of it and hope for the best!

bagarre · Post by **bagarre** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:51 am

Aside from corrosion all thru out the airframe, the motor is the single most expensive item on the plane that can go wrong at once.
My opinion is to be as sure as possible of the condition of the motor. Even if that means pulling a jug or two to be sure.

bigrenna · Post by **bigrenna** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:35 am

delete

Extrakatana · Post by **Extrakatana** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:39 am

Plane is in N. Texas
No corrosion visible, all inspection hatches removed on wing and fuse. There was some discoloration on iron surfaces like bellcranks, but I think that is to be expected. I have no problem with the fuse.

Was thinking of: Boroscope cylinders to check for rust.
Ground-run to operating temps and do oil change, cut filter and check for metal. check for leaks
Fly for one hour, do oil change and cut filter and check for metal. check for leaks
Buy if previous items pass....

hilltop170 · Post by **hilltop170** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:54 pm

GET A FULL ANNUAL !!! (Emphasis added)

If you haven't already gotten a real annual by an IA of YOUR choice, do that without fail before you buy the plane! No action needs to be taken on discrepencies, an annual is just an inspection with a list of discrepencies. Any discrepencies can be used in final price negotiations and can be completed later at your leisure by any A&P.

There is a very good classic Cessna guy at Denton if you need a recommendation for an IA to do an annual.

Seriously, get an annual.

c170b53 · Post by **c170b53** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:23 pm

Could be just me, but I look at planes for a living and sometimes something just jumps out in a model when in the past for some reason I never saw it. Having another set of trained eyes no matter what the condition of the plane can't hurt. Motors, well its all a crap shoot. Metal, likely it takes time for the small flakes to accumulate in the filter and takes even more time for them to increase their size but I guess looking would give you peace of mind for a little while.

Extrakatana · Post by **Extrakatana** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:05 am

I like the idea of pulling a jug or two but understand this involves somewhat major surgery. Pulling the baffles is a pretty good job itself Would an annual would take us pass the interior of the cylinders? Even with a scope? Would really like seeing the crank and inspecting some came lobes would, i hope, give me enough info for a pass/fail. And if fail, I buy the airframe for $8000 and put an 0-470 in it. Case solved! Oh, they would still have to agree to that wouldn't they...

Extrakatana · Post by **Extrakatana** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 9:31 pm

A question for those of you that have been inside of your continental 0 300. I am not familiar with the continentals. Can you remove the pushrods and pull the lifters through the lifter bore? My goal is to inspect the cam lobes through the lifter bore. There appears to be a service directive regarding this but I can't tell if it applies to the 0 300.

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Sun Sep 08, 2013 1:17 am

No, you must split the case to remove the lifters (followers). You won't see much of the crank, at least the parts that are really important, the journals, by pulling a jug.

I'd bore scope it, run it, get a compression check and maybe check the filter. I would not pull a cylinder.

The International Cessna 170 Association