The International Cessna 170 Association

This forum has been incredibly helpful, both from replies to my question to searching for similar earlier threads.

I looked at six 170's over the weekend. Three were for sale, one was recently for sale and the others were serendipitous reference material.

I made a conditional offer on one of them and will ferry it here for a prebuy in two weeks. Copies of FAA paperwork are on the way just in case. Is it perfect? No, but it's clean and straight with good paint and interior. I'll be on vacation at the time of the inspection so i'll participate.

Of the other two, both needed paint and interiors. One was otherwise a nice airplane and I would consider it, the other is really more of a project and is fairly beat up. I did take a good look at a '55 that was really really nice, just not for sale right now. I would have written a check for that one on the spot!

Just to add fuel to the fire, the one I'm trying to buy - is RED

Charley

Oh man!! Red planes are so "slow", green ones pass them all the time and blue ones are even faster , I pass red ones all the time even when they are parked. [ aussie humor].

ghostflyer wrote:Oh man!! Red planes are so "slow", green ones pass them all the time and blue ones are even faster , I pass red ones all the time even when they are parked. [ aussie humor].

You must be passing AFT.

Charley,

If your in the Northeast, or anywhere for that matter - you might consider stopping in to see one of the members and their airplanes. You can pick up on all the stuff we have battled with over the years as well as had great luck with. Most who have had these 170's for a while can point you in the direction of problem area's. Additionaly, as you have discovered - their is more info on this forum than you could possibly take in during multiple sessions of armchair reading.

Just ask - somebody will have done that, or know who has. I'm on Cape Cod and always looking for an excuse to fly, and Greg (170 - now 180 owner) is just across the bay in Plymouth.

Good Luck and Merry Christmas.

Kyle T.

Kyle,

Thanks, and Merry Christmas / Happy New Year to you and everyone else here.
I did exactly that and spent several hours with Pat Bartone in Hartford going over his '55 which he has had for about 20 years and has gone through completely. He is also an A&P and gave me a lot of insight on the what to expect and to look for.

The airplane I made the offer on is owned by an A&P as well and he has gone through the entire airframe. He also has a good local reputation as does the airplane itself as it has been around here since 1969. Weather permitting, I'll be flying that airplane here for a full inspection next week which I will also be present for since I took a week of vacation. There's not much to do outside right now so it will be a good time to really open up the airplane in a warm hanger and get way into it!

Charley

No offense meant for the majority of A & Ps present......some of whom are familiar with this unique situation.....but some of the most fictitious logbooks I've ever
researched were owned by "A & Ps".
I am MORE cautious when an airplane is offered by someone with the repairmans
certificate.
Have you ever visited an electricians house?
Ever ridden in an auto mechanics car?
A forty year career managing aircraft mx has shown me that the worst maintained and most beautifully documented junk was formerly owned by holders of A & P certificates.
Not always......but more often than one might imagine.
Have an annual inspection performed by a disinterested shop. IMO

I'll agree here with George, with respect to logbooks.
I don't think we should stop the presses here though as as someone who signs a fair bit, I think in any endeavour, judgement will vary based on the environment. Just so everyone understands what I mean by that, I'll give an example that I've taken from my workplace. I often have to deal with flight crews that by nature have various experience levels. I may encounter a new left seat with a seasoned right seat but more often its the other way around. Really any crew may at any time have a perception of what is normal or not and what may be a problem but they often base their decisions on experience.
So if a fuel gauge is fluctuating by say 100 kilograms is that a problem? Well if the right seater has been brought up on simulators, well fluctuations isn't something that happens that often in that setting. But if someone has had time on pre digital aircraft where fluctuations of 1K kilos can be the norm then they are likely to have a better perspective when something fluctuates 100 kilos. Seems simple enough to say that it shouldn't fluctuate at all but when the aircraft carries 1.5 K alternate fuel what is the relevance of a 100 k fluctuation?
In other words it easy to say something isn't perfect, just as easy as to say it is when all factors are considered. One of those factors is cost and likely when you chisel down what you'll find reflected in a Logbook, hence the often heard comment " buy the plane that's the most expensive one that you can afford"
And the only way to determine whether the the logbook matches the plane is by looking hard at both of them.

I've learned that quality of work is completely separate from certificates held by the person performing the work.
And people who do not think anyone will review their work, tend to do the minimum or less.
And that is in ANY industry.

It's not 100% that way but the rule is strong enough to hold such cases with extra suspect.

Aryana wrote:

bagarre wrote:I've learned that quality of work is completely separate from certificates held by the person performing the work.

I agree with that 100%.

Another correlation I've noticed is the quality of work goes up when the person has to actually fly in the aircraft too

Not according to the last couple of statements. If an owner is an A&P or AI/A&P they only have good looking log books without the accompanying Maintenance (most of the time). Of course they might not be flying the airplanes personally.

delete

Kyle, a word of warning, do not accept a ride in a 180 under any circumstances. Once you do you will be trying to figure out how to get one. This advice from someone who bought his first 170B when he had 13 hours, flew it 400 hours, sold to go to A&P school (so I could put what I want in the log books . Then I had a 140, a 150. Finally bought a 71 180, sold it, thought I needed a 310, sold that to buy a 185 (super fun), times got bad at work so sold the 185 on a Friday and bought another 170B on Saturday. Great fun at the airport doing landings but found a 69 180 project, kept flying the 170B while working (slowly) on the 180. Foolishly sold the 170B thinking the 180 would be done soon. Didn't happen so for after a year of renting 172 bought a 170A which I will keep until the 180 is finished. No matter how much fun the 170 is, can't wait to get the 180 together as the are the most versatile airplane built. So take Greg up on his offer of help but stay out of his 180.

Just my 2 cents worth, Tim

Perhaps we need an STC to put an IO-360 on a Cessna 140

Tim,

Funny you mention that... The 170 is the only good decision I've made with regard to airplanes. My first was a 1974 - 182P, great airplane. Then I had the really stupid idea of selling it, buying a twin and opening a charter business - all the while having a real job. Well, I sold the 182, bought a Seneca III and went into the Charter business Certificated right before 911 - May 19th 2001 to be exact. That didn't work out so good for the long term. In June of 2003 I turned the certificate back into the FAA (Very painful thing after all that work) and found the 170B in 2006 - just love this airplane,

But - now I've been kicking the idea around with a couple of buddies about something with a radial engine. I should just learn from all my mistakes and fly the 170 forever
I do look at 180's and 185's on TAP and ASO all the time... I'm my own worst enemy

Kyle

oooooh.... R A D I A L E N G I N E .......

There is almost nothing better sounding than a radial... ( except a Merlin )

docfoley wrote:oooooh.... R A D I A L E N G I N E .......

There is almost nothing better sounding than a radial... ( except a Merlin )

Especially to high dollar repair shops that specialize in mechanical problems
of the wealthy.