Radio Question

[n9gmr]

I have a question about aircraft communication rules. I've researched this on-line, and have found nothing.
While I was visiting Alaska last week, I took several flights in small planes. While listening to the unicom frequency, I'd had things like, "Mark are you in the air?" This indicated to me a pilot was attempting to call another airplane. Is it legal for pilots to talk to each other in flight? I thought it was illegal for a pilot to converse with another pilot accept for Unicom, or talking to ATC.
When can a ground station talk to an airplane? I know ATC is on the ground, and they can, but are there other times when this is allowed? I'm thinking if I'm meting a pilot to go flying, we'd need some way to find each other. If the pilot is a ham operator, we can use that, or cell phone if that works. I also have a GMRS license as well, so that's a possibility. I'm guessing we could not use an aircraft frequency, even one that is unused. Is this correct?
I find in noisy environments I don't always har my cell phone ring. When meeting a pilot at a local airport, the primary method I'd use to get there would be paratransit. They may not get me to the exact place where the plane will be parked, and I might not know that till I actually get there.
I'll be getting my hands on an aircraft radio this week. I know it can transmit, and I might never get to use that function, and will only use it for listening. You may suggest I get a scanner, but those things are very complicated to program, and I cannot always remember what is what. I found a an aircraft radio I can easily use and program. It has a lot of audio fedack so I know what it is doing. With the PC software, I can put in all frequencies I ned, but can also put stuff in if I need to if I'm away from my computer. The radio I"m purchasing is the Icom IC-a6. I've played with one,and know I can use it. I just need to find the location of some of the buttons.

Matt Roberts

[blueldr]

Legal or not, ground-to-air, air-to-ground, and air-to-air personal commumications on the aviation frequencies are common. Often on an unauthorized but very seldom used, previously agreed upon, frequency.
With 760 channels, what the hell, they can't all be busy.
In days of old when aviators were bold, all the airplanes transmitted on 3105kc and listened to the ground stations on 200 to 400 kcs. Personal communications were almost non existant in those days.
As VHF came on line in the military it started with four (4) channels. When it "modernized" to eight (8), most of the old timers wondered what in hell they were gonna do with eight channels.
When civil aviation changed to VHF, they soon split it up to 90, then 180, then 360, etc., now they're up to over 2200 in Europe, all within the aviation portion of the spectrum.
Progress. ---- I suppose. It seems to me that with the technology they have developed with the cell phone industry, we all ought to have our own frquency by tail number.

[hilltop170]

Matt-
It is perfectly legal for airplanes to talk to each other, on the ground or in the air. That is what unicom frequencies are for. There are other authorized frequencies strictly for air-to-air communications in certain high-traffic areas for advisory purposes, for instance around Mt. McKinley and Knik River/Lake George both in Alaska. I would guess other well-traveled areas, like Grand Canyon, etc would have similar freqs.

With that being said, calling someone by name is very poor form and the person is doing it either thru ignorance, laziness, or because they don't know "Mark's" tail number. Any communication on the aircraft frequencies should be carried out using the N-Numbers of the planes involved.

It sounds like you are not a pilot and have had no training in the proper procedures of aircraft communications. In order to legally transmit on an aircraft frequency, a Restricted Radio Telephone license is required from the FCC. Unauthorized transmissions are usually vigorously procecuted by the FCC.

If interested in monitoring aircraft radio communications I would strongly advise you listen only. With the government's recently-discovered interest in monitoring personal communications of all sorts, You might expect a knock on your door if unauthorized transmissions are eminating from you. They have VERY good DF equipment.

[GAHorn]

Matt, the FCC (Federal Communications Commission) is the governing body for radio "telephony"...as you probably already know as a "Ham" operator.
The VHF band set aside for aircraft communications is basically between 118.000 and 137.000, with certain frequencies used as "Unicom"...meaning Universal Communications channels. They are most often for the purpose of communicating between aircraft and commercial or private facilities based at airports, also known as FBOs (Fixed-Base Operators). FBOs provide parking, fuel, maintenance, etc. generally for non-scheduled aircraft using the airport, predominately General Aviaiton but sometimes gov't, military, charter aircraft, etc. as well.
Certain channels which are designated for communication between aircraft and FBOs at large, towered airports are usually 123.0 through 123.075, and the most common frequency designated specifically for aircraft-to-aircraft comunication is 122.9 (fixed wing). There are others which are more specific, but those are the most common. Also, 122.8 and 122.7 are commonly designated for aircraft to broadcast their operations and positions "in the blind" to other aircraft in the airport traffic-patterns of uncontrolled airports. 122.9 is sometimes also used for that purpose.

Sectional charts and Airport Facilities Directories publish which frequencies are designated at which airports.
If you are simply looking to "chat"...such as one might on Channel 19 in the Citizens-Band.... then you might listen in to 122.9.
UNOFFICIALLY the frequency of 123.45 is often used between pilots simply out goofing around, although officially that frequency is for aircraft conducting flight-tests and formations.

While the FCC is fairly lax about these unofficial communications, you should be made aware that the aviation spectrum is monitored and careless or reckless use, or misleading and malicious use can result in prosecution. The common rules are always followed...meaning, no profane, malicious, misleading, or harassing transmissions are allowed. Listen before transmitting, as one may not interrupt on-going communications which may be "vital".

Also, 121.5 is the Int'l emergency and distress frequency and is monitored (on "guard") by most commercial and military operators. It is important NOT to make use of that channel for anything other than emergency or assistance to aircraft in distress on 121.5, although occasionally one might attempt contact with an aircraft who has "lost" communications on other channels by searching for them, presuming they may be monitoring 121.5. IN other words... listening is fine...but do not make transmissions on 121.5 unless you are directly involved in such activities or search-and-rescue.

All the rules are published by FCC and re-publshed by FAA and found in the Airman's Information Manual (also online.) One does NOT use the aviation band as one might the Citizen's Band. I.E., do NOT simply make a call "Hey, Mark! Are you listening?" or such. The common rules require the broadcast to IDENTIFY the object (tail number) of the other facility, followed by the IDENTIFICATION of the transmitting facility, followed by the purpose of the call or message, such as : " Cessna November 146Yankee Sierra, this is Cessna November 7 Alpha, can you reduce your speed so I can catch up and join up with you?"

Hope that helps.

[n9gmr]

Richard,

You're correct I'm not a pilot. I have listened to ATC communications for years, and know some of how it works. I don't know everything!
I've been researching this topic all day. All of my research has confirmed what you said. The FCC doesn't state things very clearly. In the description for the permit, it states most stations are covered. I will be calling the FCC in the morning to get clarification.
I will get the license because I don't have to worry about being prosecuted for operating an unlicensed station.

Matt Roberts

[GAHorn]

Matt...the rule Richard mentioned changed a few decades ago. (wink)

If you travel abroad, and operate an aircraft's transmitters...or anywhere, if you operate an H.F. transmitter... you will require the PERMIT...(not a "license".)

If you operate a ground station (including portable transmitters not assigned to a specific aircraft) you will need a Station license.
However a Radio station license -is not required for any aircraft operating within the United
States. An aircraft must have an FCC station license (FCC form 605, Schedule C
– expires every 10 years) and at least one crew member in the aircraft must hold
an FCC restricted radiotelephone operator permit (FCC form 753 – does not
expire) to use a VHF radio in Canada, Mexico, the Bahamas and British Virgin
Islands. Ground based transceivers (UNICOMs, FBOs, etc.) must hold a radio
station license. Hand held VHF transceivers do not require a radio station license
when used in an aircraft.

Matt, one of the most thorough and complete information manuals about aviation and such is the "Aeronautical Information Manual" which is available free in PDF format at this link:
http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publicat ... 9-2012.pdf

Another excellent "short course" on matters, practices, and good advice is provided by the Texas Dept of Aviation:

TxDOT general_pilot_112111.pdf

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[hilltop170]

As usual George, you have explained things much better than I have. I guess I still thought a Restricted Radio Telephone "Permit" is still required because I fly thru Canada so often and it is required for that. I tend to remember the things that apply to me personally more than to everyone in general. Plus, I got mine 42 years ago and haven't kept up with the latest changes.

[pdb]

?.. I guess I still thought a Restricted Radio Telephone "Permit" is still required because I fly thru Canada so often and it is required for that. ...Plus, I got mine 42 years ago and haven't kept up with the latest changes.

The FCC Restricted Radio Telephone Permit is a perfect example of a needless requirement by a nearly needless federal bureaucracy. I got mine 40 years ago and it's still valid.

No one can explain what vital national interest is served by my carrying this fading useless bit of paper in my pocket. The FCC says I no longer need it for domestic flight, only for international flight. The Canadians, practical folks, don't require it for Americans flying N registered planes in Canada.

Only the bureaucrats want me to keep it.

[hilltop170]

I agree 100%! I did nothing to get it except fill out the form and I have never been asked to show it to anyone, ever! Another waste of resources, time, and effort.

[blueldr]

I remember throwing mine away when I was cleaning out my wallet about twenty years ago. (I think I was making room for more money.) I got it when I received my commercial at graduation from Advanced Flight Training at Luke Field in during WWII. Not once did anyone ever look at it, or even ask about it, after that.

[GAHorn]

As an excited student pilot, eager to have all my documentations, I drove to downtown Houston's Federal Bldg, paid the parking attendant and rode the elevator up to the floor where the FCC had offices. Waited an hour, finally was waited upon, and ushered into a small cubicle-room to fill out my application for the permit, paying the $8 fee for it by cashiers check (they refused to accept cash or personal checks and MasterCard had yet to be invented.)
A month later I received my permit in the mail, and I dutifully signed it to validate it and stuck it in my wallet.
A few years later some enterprising attorney demanded that FCC show cause for charging a fee for the permit and FCC stopped charging for it, and if anyone could produce the receipt for the original cashiers check/money order FCC would mail a refund. ($8 was a lot of money to me back then, equivalent to what I paid for an hour's rental on a C150...so it must be about $100 now.) wasted time and money

I finally laminated the brown, tattered, rotting paper certificate to preserve it from total disintegration in my wallet.

The only time I've ever been required to produce it was while applying for a British pilot "licence" when I flew for British Aerospace in order to pickup/deliver new airplanes still registered with a "G" registration. They took one look at it and asked if I was proficient in Morse Code. I replied with a convincing "Of course!" (I had once (51 years ago) passed a Merit Badge requirement by completing the alphabet in less than 20 minutes....blazing....simply blazing. I can still remember some of the tricks I used to pass that test, for example, "F" is .._. represented by a Fox, with two beady eyes, a long body, and a short bushy tail. etc etc. That image changed a few years later.

That was all it ever did for me, satisfy a legal requirement imposed by some Geneva convention, and as far as I know is why it's still required.