Shifting Cargo Loads
Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher
Shifting Cargo Loads
In another discussion-thread, it has been cussed/discussed about rear seat removal and cargo and methods of securing cargo.
If the importance of properly securing cargo isn't fully appreciated, it might be helpful to be reminded...
Today, a cargo aircraft crashed, stalling on take-off. A listener on-frequency stated one of the pilots suggested shifting cargo.
http://avherald.com/h?article=46183bb4&opt=0
If the importance of properly securing cargo isn't fully appreciated, it might be helpful to be reminded...
Today, a cargo aircraft crashed, stalling on take-off. A listener on-frequency stated one of the pilots suggested shifting cargo.
http://avherald.com/h?article=46183bb4&opt=0
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
Re: Shifting Cargo Loads
And if memory serves anywhere near correct I believe that is what happened to a Fine Air DC 8 out of MIA about 15 years ago also.
Keep your speed up, Blackhawk on final behind you.
Re: Shifting Cargo Loads
Are you thinking of the Dizzy Eight that went in for that reason out at Mather Airport (MHR) near Sacramento?
BL
Re: Shifting Cargo Loads
The one at Mather Airport crashed do the elevator being jammed from a bolt in the elevator linkage being installed backward. The crash at Mather is one of the things that lead to the loss of Emery's operating certificate. Flew the DC8-73 for 18 years, and we trained for cargo shifts in the sim every few years.
Tim
Tim
Re: Shifting Cargo Loads
Tim,
Thanks for the above info.I never heard anything after the first "guess" on the cause of that crash. I remember it only because I live very nearby and we don't have that kind of excitement often. Thankfully.
Thanks for the above info.I never heard anything after the first "guess" on the cause of that crash. I remember it only because I live very nearby and we don't have that kind of excitement often. Thankfully.
BL
Re: Shifting Cargo Loads
Cargo Load Shift = Freight dog Nightmare
Old Longhorn Pilot Doug
Old Longhorn Pilot Doug
52' C-170B N2713D Ser #25255
Doug
Doug
Re: Shifting Cargo Loads
This is the one I was thinking about
http://aviation-safety.net/database/rec ... 19970807-0
http://aviation-safety.net/database/rec ... 19970807-0
Keep your speed up, Blackhawk on final behind you.
- Bruce Fenstermacher
- Posts: 10320
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am
Re: Shifting Cargo Loads
Load shift is serious business no doubt.
I'm thinking though that the biggest chance of load shift in our single engine Cessna's, has been documented as the shift of the load in the pilots seat backwards and the pilot pulling full up to a stall on departure.
A reminder that the Cessna solution s still FREE till this coming Dec 2013. It is not perfect but I like mine.
I'm thinking though that the biggest chance of load shift in our single engine Cessna's, has been documented as the shift of the load in the pilots seat backwards and the pilot pulling full up to a stall on departure.
A reminder that the Cessna solution s still FREE till this coming Dec 2013. It is not perfect but I like mine.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Re: Shifting Cargo Loads
I've seen a number of single-Cessna's which are operated without a rear baggage-bulkhead-wall. This allows outsized and oddly-sized cargo to be carried as well as allows easy access to the rear fuselage area.
The chance that loose items could migrate to the rear fuselage area is real, and not only can an out-of-balance situation easily occur, but interference with flight controls is also a possibility. The rear wall of the baggage compartment is a serious piece of the safety-equipment on these airplanes, as it helps contain the cargo and protect the flight-control system.
The chance that loose items could migrate to the rear fuselage area is real, and not only can an out-of-balance situation easily occur, but interference with flight controls is also a possibility. The rear wall of the baggage compartment is a serious piece of the safety-equipment on these airplanes, as it helps contain the cargo and protect the flight-control system.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
Re: Shifting Cargo Loads
Ernst Gann's great Book
'Fate in the Hunter'
has a story about this very thing.
iowa
'Fate in the Hunter'
has a story about this very thing.
iowa
1951 170A 1468D SN 20051
1942 L-4B 2764C USAAC 43-572 (9433)
AME #17747
- Green Bean
- Posts: 163
- Joined: Tue May 06, 2003 2:13 am
Re: Shifting Cargo Loads
Update on 2952 National Air Cargo 744 Crash - Bagram -- From a reliable source
This is accurate info from NTSB source two days ago:
The CVR/FDR on the accident aircraft stopped working on rotation; engine/fuselage/tail parts were located on the runway.
A total of (7) MRAP armored vehicles were being carried as cargo.
NAC was the only civil DoD contract carrier who will carry these vehicles.
Aircraft loaded at Camp Bastian, not Bagram, was stopping in Bagram for fuel. Aircraft uplifted 48,000 lbs of fuel at Bargram for flight to DXB (Dubai). After impact, 1 MRAP vehicle was deeper in the impact crater than any aircraft/fuselage parts.
This is accurate info from NTSB source two days ago:
The CVR/FDR on the accident aircraft stopped working on rotation; engine/fuselage/tail parts were located on the runway.
A total of (7) MRAP armored vehicles were being carried as cargo.
NAC was the only civil DoD contract carrier who will carry these vehicles.
Aircraft loaded at Camp Bastian, not Bagram, was stopping in Bagram for fuel. Aircraft uplifted 48,000 lbs of fuel at Bargram for flight to DXB (Dubai). After impact, 1 MRAP vehicle was deeper in the impact crater than any aircraft/fuselage parts.
- Bruce Fenstermacher
- Posts: 10320
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am
Re: Shifting Cargo Loads
What is a CVR/FDR?
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Re: Shifting Cargo Loads
Cockpit Voice Recorder/Flight Data RecorderBruce Fenstermacher wrote:What is a CVR/FDR?
John E. Barrett
aka. Johneb
Sent from my "Cray Super Computer"
aka. Johneb
Sent from my "Cray Super Computer"
Re: Shifting Cargo Loads
Since most CVF/FDRs are located in the tail...if that section was separated from the aircraft it would stand to reason they'd stop recording....but what doesn't make sense at this point is...the aircraft was seen climbing with the tail still attached.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
- Green Bean
- Posts: 163
- Joined: Tue May 06, 2003 2:13 am
Re: Shifting Cargo Loads
the source said in the email,
"on rotation; engine/fuselage/tail parts were located on the runway", which probably indicates a tail strike..and yes the horizontal stab (the tail section) did not separate, and with the tail cone, were the only items left at crash site after the accident. The engine parts could have been from the APU. (Auxiliary Power Unit), as well as the tail parts (parts of the Elevator Stab), that could have cost a loss of pitch control.
"on rotation; engine/fuselage/tail parts were located on the runway", which probably indicates a tail strike..and yes the horizontal stab (the tail section) did not separate, and with the tail cone, were the only items left at crash site after the accident. The engine parts could have been from the APU. (Auxiliary Power Unit), as well as the tail parts (parts of the Elevator Stab), that could have cost a loss of pitch control.