Aryana wrote:
Here's a video of the A380 banging it HARD on the runway in a light but very direct crosswind at OSH. They still have a lot of work to do to get all that fancy schmancy software to grease it on when the pilot has a brain fart!
I personally think that was a good landing, or a very lucky one! It was one of the best spot landings/short field landings I have ever seen in a passenger jet (not counting the C-17 airshow demos). The one thing I didn't see was rudder deflection just before touchdown to straighten out the plane, he just flew it on in a crab. Maybe that's the way Airbus trains but it looks like a lot of stress to the landing gear and airframe could be reduced with rudder.
There was another video taken from some other GA airplane on final approach at a later time which showed the tire marks where the A-380 touched down, it was feet from the end of the runway. I think the captain was concerned about runway length and deliberately landed short and firm, maybe a little too firm but who hasn't one time or another (especially when the whole world is watching and you're trying to make a good impression).
Last edited by hilltop170 on Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
In most large aircraft with four pod mounted hi bypass engines, it is recommended to land in a crab. For example the 747 with CF-6 engines that I flew allows only 4 degrees of bank at touchdown or you risk a pod strike. Perhaps the professional pilots flying this considerably larger aircraft may actually know what they are doing.
After watching the video I don't know what you are trying to say. They landed the worlds largest passenger plane on a short narrow runway in a strong and gusty crosswind, while the aircraft is 100s of thousands of pounds below max landing where VLS and V app are about the same and ground speed mini isn't really helping. I can't imagine what the AOA was but it had to be rather high restricting the view of the runway out of the right side window and right front window. So what wasn't right ,them not running off the left side of the runway or them using the right rudder peddle straighten the aircraft out after a very challenging approach? Looks to me that they did a good job for what they had to do. I've always wondered why Old rather experienced pilots watch a less than good approach and landing, ends in laughter and phrases: been there done that let's have a beer. While younger less experienced guys always know just what and why things went wrong. Maybe big ugly airplanes shouldn't land at airports with little runways so little airplane pilots can look at them.
If you're really interested in crosswind landings in big airplanes, there's a very good video in Portugese from Brazil on you "You Tube" of Boeing tests of the 747 and 777 landing in SERIOUS crosswinds. They hold them VERY level all the way through touch down and land in a helluva crab.
I agree with Bruce but everyone still needs to realize everyone on this forum is expressing OPINIONS. Anyone who gets angry or their feelings hurt and feel they need to lash out at others who are expressing OPINIONS needs to take a Midol and relax.
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
OPINION : a belief or judgement that rest on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty. KNOWLEDGE: is a familiarity with someone or something, which can include facts, information,description, or skills acquired through experience or education. BLATHER: OPINION without KNOWLEDGE. MIDOL: For the relief of Menstrual Symptoms. Was your comment on the use of Midol based on opinion or knowledge?
All my comments are opinions. I do have first hand knowledge of PMS symptoms but not sure if Midol would help the ones I've seen!
Last edited by hilltop170 on Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
runerider wrote:OPINION : a belief or judgement that rest on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty. ...
Whew! For a while there I was afraid your opinion about Airbus might be personal convictions.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention. An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
WOW I thought we were going to put this to bed! Just to be clear I don't know of an Air frame I don't like, I enjoyed flying all of them. Maybe it's the midol talking but airplanes are airplanes but unless you know what your talking about, oh let's just say( it's better to not say anything and be thought a fool or start blathering and remove all doubt. Just saying. Damn Midol
Hang on Bruce! I think there may still be some life in this horse!
My question is for Jud or other engineer/test pilot types. When the American A-300 lost its vertical tail they say it was because the first officer applied full rudder, left and right, several times. Prior to this accident I was under the impression that as long as the aircraft was below Va that the airframe could take any control input without being overstressed. After the accident we learned about the increased stresses put on the tail by rudder reversal inputs. So, when flying below Va, could the wings or aileron hinges be overstressed by rapidly applying full aileron left and right or the horizontal stab damaged by rapid full up and down travel of the elevator? I can't think of any situation where a pilot would do this but then I never imagined a pilot would apply full rudder back and forth either.
In light of the findings of that accident and this thread I've wondered how the 170 would stand up to such rudder inputs. Anybody know if CAR3 requirements for the tail structure are more conservative than those Airbus had to adhere to?
CAR's required the aircraft to demonstrate spin recovery.
Airbus is not approved for spins, or wiggling of the rudder.
To be fair, not all comparisons can be made due to scale.
Ants survive falls from skyscrapers.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention. An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
