Tailwheel transition time to a 170

[jworth94]

I've got about 90 hours of tailwheel time in a Decathlon. I was wondering what everyone thought about how my experience may transfer to a 170A or B model. I've ridden in a 180HP 170B, but haven't had a chance to fly one. In my Decathlon, I feel relatively comfortable in most conditions, but I know it's a completely different airplane.

Any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks for the input.

Jon

[Jr.CubBuilder]

You'll be fine, just get some insurance.
Seriously I doubt it's any more to deal with than a Citabria.

[blueldr]

Jon,

Don't let these guys give you a snow job! As you well know, a Citabria is really just an Aeronca Champ in Polyurethane paint. Almost anyone can fly a Champ. A C-170 is something entirely different. It has a wheel instead of a stick and you can't even sit in the middle on the airplane center line. Unless you're a really intrepid aviator like all of the C-170 pilots, you're gonna die!

[Jr.CubBuilder]

Jon,

Don't let these guys give you a snow job! As you well know, a Citabria is really just an Aeronca Champ in Polyurethane paint. Almost anyone can fly a Champ. A C-170 is something entirely different. It has a wheel instead of a stick and you can't even sit in the middle on the airplane center line. Unless you're a really intrepid aviator like all of the C-170 pilots, you're gonna die!

Your killing me BL

[Jinkers]

I've got about 90 hours of tailwheel time in a Decathlon. I was wondering what everyone thought about how my experience may transfer to a 170A or B model. I've ridden in a 180HP 170B, but haven't had a chance to fly one. In my Decathlon, I feel relatively comfortable in most conditions, but I know it's a completely different airplane.

Any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks for the input.

Jon

I'll let you know in a week or two when I pick mine up. I have 30 hours in a Citabria and as far as the insurance co is concerned 1 hour of dual with a sign-off is all they require.

[GAHorn]

The Cessna 170 is one of the best handling taildraggers around. My first airplane was an Aerona Chief (a Champ with a wheel and side-by-side seating). It was a horror, compared to the Cessna 120/140/170's. The 170 is a gentleman compared to the others. It is slightly better handling (due to response) even than the pussy-cat 108 Stinson, in my opinion.
It's THE reason BluElder has attained his great age with such modesty (although it has left him in a slightly introverted state.)

[jworth94]

Jr.CubBuilder,

Thanks for the insight.

Jinkers,

That's good to know about insurance. Let me know how it goes when you take delivery.


gahorn,

Thanks for the comparisons. That's good info.


To all;

How is the rudder authority on these airplanes. What kind of crosswind do you guys feel comfortable with? Do you do mostly wheel or 3-point landings?

Thanks,

Jon

[blueldr]

Jon,

Don't listen to these guys. I guess I should know what I'm talking about. I've already wrecked two of 'em!

[hilltop170]

To all;

How is the rudder authority on these airplanes. What kind of crosswind do you guys feel comfortable with? Do you do mostly wheel or 3-point landings?

Thanks,

Jon

Jon-
You should not have any trouble with the transition. I transitioned from a PA-11 Cub and Taylorcraft at 60 hours and had no problems except getting used to the spring gear vs. the bungee type gear. The 170 gear is very springy if dropped-in. If you bounce twice, don't let it bounce a third time, go around. The bounces usually get worse and loss of control is the main risk at that point. Learn 3-point landings first then go to wheel landings. I prefer wheel landings.

The 170 has an effective rudder and handles good in a crosswind. Limit the crosswind component to 10mph, less if it's gusty, until you get used to it.

[pif_sonic]

Jworth94,

I am not a 170 guru like some of theses people on this site. However I have just over 300 hours in a 170. I am sure I will get a lot of flak for the following post but this is my very limited experience in a 170.

I went to a 170 from a 150 with 150 hours total time. After 6 hours of TW time my instructor soloed me. I did not think I was ready but he did. Let me tell you the first 10 hours of solo flight in the 170 was scary but that was because I was letting my mind take me places I did not want to go.

My instructor made me learn wheel landings first. He said they are harder and you need to learn those and learn them well. The 3-point was very easy to learn after learning the wheel landings.

The most cross wind component I have landed in was 18 knts. The wind was 350 @ 28 gusting to approximately 35, I landed on runway 31. Runway 35/17 was closed due to a lighting strike the day before. I believe that is as about as much as I would be able to do. The plane handled very well and had enough rudder authority to handle it. I have an A model and it is one of the best slipping planes I have flown, lots of rudder.

I do believe you will enjoy flying the 170 very much. Plus it is just a great looking plane.

[Harold Holiman]

I have about 600 + hours in a 170 and about 600 hours in a 180. As long as you stay alert and don't let it get ahead of you, you will be ok. As to hours, it will depend on you. Same with crosswind.

Harold

[jworth94]

blueldr,

Thanks for forthrightness. I'm glad to learn anything I can about these airplanes.

hilltop170,

I'm used to the spring gear on the Decathlon, I wonder if the 170 would be somewhat comparable? Which gear has more bounce on the 170's, the newer or older gear? Is the 180 gear swap the way to go?

pif_sonic

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I'm glad to hear the A models are good at slipping. Of course, with a flappless Decathlon, I often slip on final.

When you landed with a 18 crosswind, did you wheel or 3-point? I've heard arguments for both positions. Without knowing much about a 170, I would guess in a gusty crosswind you'd have a bit faster approach speed and wheel land?

I agree with you about the looks of the 170. I think they're one of the best looking airplanes around.

Harold,

You stole my next topic from me. How would you compare a 170 to a 180 with regard to handling characteristics? There's a mid-50's 180 at my home field. I started talking to the owner one day. Apparently, he's got tons of time in Navy aircraft. When he retired from the Navy he starting flying jets commercially. According to him, his 180 has him more concerned on landing than any other plane he's flown, including his current work aircraft - a 737.

Jon

[pif_sonic]

Jworth94,

With the higher cross winds, a short field and a soft field I do 3-point landings. With just a little bit of cross wind 6-8 knots I will do a 3point but anything higher than that I do wheel landings. I can do a 3-point in higher cross winds but I am personally not comfortable in the higher cross winds. I mostly do wheel landings just because I want to stay proficient at them. I think anybody can do a 3-point landing. I believe wheel landing is a perishable skill.

Now the trick is to do a 3-point on a short/soft field with a high cross wind??????? You might want to ask some of the more experienced tail wheel pilots for that advice. For me I guess I do what I am comfortable with.

One of the scariest landings I did was at Reds Horse Ranch. It is a back country strip. I was landing to the south. I crossed over the Minam strip(http://www.minamlodgeoutfitters.com) and proceeded to the Reds strip. There is a windsock on the Minam strip It was blowing straight south on the Minam strip at approximately 10 knots. (When I over flew the strip it appeared there was no wind at all.) By that time I felt I was committed to land on the Reds strip. When I touched down on the Reds strip there was about a 10 knot tailwind. I am not sure what all the technical terms are that happened but the plane really felt weird. I am not sure but it really felt like the tail wanted to pass me more than normal. Maybe some better pilots than me can explain it better.

[Jr.CubBuilder]

Wheel landing or three pointers? Learn them both and I bet you will end up with a favorite. Either one will work, but everyone who flies one of these thing has an opinion and there's no end to the discussion when you ask which one is better and why. I prefer a tail low wheel landing that is sort of a permutation of the two. If you find yourself bouncing a lot it's probably because you are hitting the ground to hard, as my favorite instructor told me "it's like sliding a baby into the crib" "gentle".

[KMac]

Jon,
I bought my 170 and started flying it with similar tailwheel experience (citabria and decathalon). I had a majority of my time in 172s and 182s. My experience has been that the 170 is a lot heavier in handling, especially on the ground, than the decathalon. With the 145 horse engine my biggest transition problem was trying to make it fly before it was ready. The gear is stock 170A on my airplane and is probably softer than the decathalons. In the air the 170 handles like a 172 in my opinion. I feel my 170a is a much easier tailwheel airplane to fly than the decathalon. The 170 is a very easy to fly taildragger, very forgiving, economical, and has great utility in relation to the other qualities. You should enjoy an easy transition and fun flying in your "new" plane - plus all the comments at the airports about it being a cool looking classic.
Kevin - not an expert but have fun flying.