Monitor Hanger Temperature

Paul-WI · Post by **Paul-WI** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:15 pm

Following the link about a wireless phone activated heater brings the question I have. http://www.cessna170.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5203

We just almost finished building our hanger (need to pour concrete yet)and have the heater running in it. Because we are going to install a bathroom in it, we are trying to find a inexpensive (read cheap) way of monitoring the temperature during the winter months without running and paying for a phone line. The alarm company I use at my shop says it can be done wireless, but VERY expensive (about 700/year). Has anyone done something like this? The other option we are thinking about is putting a rotating red beacon on the outside that would come on when the temperature inside the hanger drops below a certain setting, but then I would be relying on airport personal to call me and letting me know I have a problem.

Thanks for any input and have a happy holiday season.

Paul

Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:17 pm

Paul

Perhaps I'm missing something. Turning on the heat at a given temperature is what a plain ordinary thermostat does. Why can't you use one for this purpose?

canderson · Post by **canderson** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:28 pm

That's an interesting issue.
Not knowing the distance from your hangar to your, I presume, residence, there might be a way to handle this other than a flashing red light. This is a speculative reply, so take it for what it's worth. There are several types of personal weather stations on the market that have remote weather sensing capabilities which, depending on the distance, might be an option. Or, if you've ever seen the weatherunderground website, you've seen that people who own certain personal weather stations link to this site and post their readings on a regular basis. I'm thinking for an initial cost, and not an ongoing charge, you could set up a weather station and link it to the web and be able to monitor the readings from home. It seems like you'd know when the potential for freezing weather exists and would then start monitoring the website. And if you went the weatherunderground route others would benefit from having the weather statistics at the airport disseminated across an easily accesible web page.
Just some Friday afternoon ramblings...

Paul-WI · Post by **Paul-WI** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:40 pm

The airport and hanger are 3+ miles from the house so using a weather station probably would not work. And I should clarify that I will install a thermostat and have it set 45-50. What I am worried about is if the heater quits working and I don't catch it in time. I don't want my pipes to freeze - this could also get expensive. It can cool off pretty quick when the temps drop below 0 even though the hanger is well insulated. It's not uncommon to see -10 to -40 through January.

Paul

canderson · Post by **canderson** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:00 am

3+ miles????? Wow.
I'm dealing with 31 miles to my rented hangar! Ah, to have a 170 so close- I'm jealous. A thermostat on a modest heating system should cover you except for those rare occasions, which, I hear you loud and clear, you are trying to cover here.

jrenwick · Post by **jrenwick** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:07 am

Paul,

If you're willing to pay $20/month or so for basic phone service, you can do all sorts of fun things. See my post about X10 on the thread after this one!

John

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:03 am

Now I see the problem. You really want to know if there is NO heat.

And my question would be why would the heat fail?

Roesbery · Post by **Roesbery** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:45 am

You say you have not poured the concrete yet. If you put in floor circulating water heat the cement will become warm and hold heat for some time if the power goes out. Also nice to work on in the winter, or lay on and take a snooze.

djbaker · Post by **djbaker** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:00 am

I had the same problem in some new hangars I just built. To keep the bathroom from freezing I isolated it into a 10 x10 room and put 10" of insulation around it. I have the main natural gas heater set up to keep the area at 55 degrees. If the main heat fails I have an electric heater that comes on at 45 degrees. The electric heater seemed like cheap insurance.If the electricity dies so does my fail-proof system. I do go there every day so I hope things are not without heat for too long.

johneeb · Post by **johneeb** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:02 am

N9149A wrote:Now I see the problem. You really want to know if there is NO heat.

And my question would be why would the heat fail?

Bruce the answer to your question is the same as the answer to the question why does a dog lick his balls?

hilltop170 · Post by **hilltop170** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:28 am

Paul-
You didn't mention what type of heat it is. You also didn't mention if you would have a hot water heater. If it's not too late, and you have a boiler system, you could put it and the water heater inside the bathroom and insulate the bathroom well. Especially if one is gas and the other is electric, the waste heat off the heaters should keep the bathroom above freezing. It works in my hangar.

On the weather station suggestion, put the weather station inside the bathroom.

My experience in Alaska with natural gas in-floor heat vs. natural gas Modine style space heat on two different hangars is the Modine heat costs less than in-floor. On the other hand, if you lay on your back a lot, in-floor is worth it.

Paul-WI · Post by **Paul-WI** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:37 pm

I probably should have clarified things a little more. We installed a Modine type heater - cheaper than in-floor heat. As a side note, my Auto Repair Shop I installed in-floor heating in when I remodeled 11 years ago - best investment I made as far as heating - so I was very tempted to install this in the hanger as well. When I build my bathroom. it will be 2x6 construction, insulated, and have electric back-up heat as well. Maybe I am just being paranoid about loosing heat as I have never had a problem at the shop, but then again I am not at my hanger every day. Have a happy holiday everyone. I have to go plow - 6" last night with maybe another 5-6" by midnight/ Wrecking the lakes as far as slush goes so I may be stuck with landing on snowmobile trails this winter if I ever get around to putting the skis on.

Paul

Post by **GAHorn** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:04 pm

Wouldn't it be a lot simpler to just install water-cut-offs and drain-valve at the bathroom water inlet?

hilltop170 · Post by **hilltop170** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 6:00 pm

Hey George-
Not if you want to use it regularly, pilots up north don't quit flying in the winter just because it gets cold! It's some of the best flying there is and when the cars stop falling thru the ice, it's time to land on the lakes.

Too bad there's so much snow before the ice is safe. Snow weighs down what ice there is, making it crack and sink below water level, then water flows up on top of the ice creating slush or overflow as we call it in Alaska.

The digital thermostat in my Alaska hangar goes down to 40Â°F and that's warm enough to start without preheat. I haven't had any freeze problems with the water and I think it would take a prolonged outage to hurt things. The Modine works great to spike up the temperature if I want to go the hangar for awhile.

Post by **GAHorn** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 6:22 pm

If he was using it regularly he'd know if his heat was failed, no? The weather service predicts cold temps on an area basis. His only problem is fear of a heater failure causeing frozen pipes..... a fairly remote possibility at best and a non-event if the pipes were drained for a period of time no flying is expected.
I mean... if it's too much trouble to go to see if the hangar is frozen...because it's too far.... then I imagine it's also not likely to need to have water available in a bathroom that's too far away to go visit.

(This is sort of like having water-pressure constantly available in a house that's used so very little that a leaking pipe could cause water damage, so a method is being devised to detect a leaking pipe, so someone could alert someone nearer the house to go turn off the water. It's a lot simpler to just turn off the water when the place is not being used, and turn it on when one arrives to use it.)

But simplicity and the relative costs of complex solutions to rare problems is clearly not what anyone who owns airplanes is about.