Tailwheel flat

[170C]

Miles, your instructor must have been smarter than mine or maybe it was my instructor's student who wasn't so smart I seem to remember calculating weight & balance to pass the test, but haven't done so since 1983. Guess I should brush the dust off that old private pilot 3 ring binder and do some studying. I didn't attend a formal ground school, rather self study with the above mentioned home study method.

[rudymantel]

As Eric pointed out, you'd lose the advantage of a pneumatic tire. That might exacerbate our problem of main springs breaking (especially if you had a steel spacer?) 180's don't have that problem with their nice tapered tube springs. I knew there had to be a catch !
Rudy

[rudymantel]

BTW, that gives new meaning to "Spring Break"!
Rudy

[cessna170bdriver]

BTW, that gives new meaning to "Spring Break"!
Rudy

Rudy, Sorry to say it, but that sounds like something George would have said!

BTW, I'm curious to know what foam is used in tires, and what life could be expected. There are a lot of foams out there that would take a high static load but would turn to dust under the flexing.

Michelin is working on an airless tire/wheel combination called a tweel.
http://www.michelinman.com/difference/r ... 2005a.html

The look would take some getting used to , and I'm sure the development and approval costs for aircraft would astronomical.

There is a composite-core airless scooter tire that claims to ride like a pneumatic tire that is advertised at http://members.tripod.com/~coleco/airle ... m#airless8 that looks close to the right size for a tailwheel... (George, please just pretend like you didn't see this )

Miles

[GAHorn]

Well,... if anyone REALLY want's to try a home-made solution to this ...
WalMart sells, in their bicycle section, solid foam "inner tube" replacements for 2" bicycle tires. I guess if someone were to purchase one of those things, and cut it on an angle so as to give greater surface to glue/vulcanize it back into a circle from it's original 20" or so diameter,... one could make a solid-foam "inner tube" for their kids toys ... many of which are about the same size/diameter as ... say ... a Scott 3200 tailwheel on a 170.
Don't know how critical such a thing might be at speed if it were less than perfectly balanced, or how it might affect tire wear. Please just pretend I didn't type this.

[Dave Clark]

As Eric pointed out, you'd lose the advantage of a pneumatic tire. That might exacerbate our problem of main springs breaking (especially if you had a steel spacer?) 180's don't have that problem with their nice tapered tube springs. I knew there had to be a catch !
Rudy

Well Rudy I had the privilege of busting a 180 stinger! It was the early lightweight size, I was loaded to leave for Arizona (that should read really loaded) and when I turned on to the runway it broke just at the tailwheel casting. Went off like a rifle shot. Nothing damaged.

A really close preflight might have revealed the crack forming.

[170C]

George, you mentioned you carry an inexpensive foot powered air pump with you. What would be wrong with carrying one of those aerosol cans that auto supply stores sell to air up automotive tires? Of course if it leaked one could find it empty when needed, but most aerosol cans don't have a propensity to leak.

[GAHorn]

The aerosol cans usually also are loaded with latex. Latex does not really seal leaks very well. Plus, once latex is loaded into the tube...you can forget about simply patching it and saving it. It's definitely a throw away. And if the leak persists...you now have latex and water inside your tire and on your wheel halves and..... etc. It's not nice.
(I don't even let my wife carry those cans in her car. A tubless leak filled with that stuff also renders a car tire useless and relegates it to the trash heap, while a patch would most likely save the tire. No self-respecting tire repair store would sell you or advise you to use those things.)
My foot pump cost less than $5. My tool kit also cost less than $5. My patch kit cost less than $2. In less than 30 mins I can be repaired legally, permanently, and back on the road again. Just an opinion.

[170C]

Thanks for your opinion on the aerosol can deal. I have never had one or used one and was just curious. I don't need more complications by using one. Now to go to Wally World & see if they still have those $5 foot pumps!

[N2865C]

A tubeless leak filled with that stuff also renders a car tire useless and relegates it to the trash heap, while a patch would most likely save the tire.

I don't think I would use it in my airplane. If it continued to slow leak in flight it would not be a good thing. But.... I have used it many, many times in auto tires and all of the tires were repaired with no problems. Some tire shops charge an extra 3 or 4 dollars to clean up the mess when repairing the tire. Well worth it for the convenience in my opinion. Personally, I love the stuff.

[GAHorn]

I'm not taking issue with N2865C 's message, and not attempting to have the last word on this....I just regret not mentioning that.... The tire shops I've visited universally condemned the stuff. Their reason was that the latex liquid can penetrate between the plys of the tire carcass and loosen the original vulcanizing. The tire mfr's all condemn it for the same reason (according to the same shops.) The liquid (while still in the tire) also disrupts any balance that may have existed previously. Tube-types especially don't seal well because the latex doesn't dry properly except when exposed to the air, something that doesn't happen within a tire's carcass when trying to plug a tube.
They also refuse to repair a tire that has been previously repaired with a plug, for similar reasons. The air can slip between the plys and delaminate the tire's plys rendering the tire unsafe. They all agree a repairable tire can be patched properly with no problem, as long as the puncture is not on a sidewall.

[n2582d]

I REALLY like Eric's suggestion of a foam-filled tailwheel tire. What's the downside ? (Except of course that it's not FAA Approved)-
Do auto tire shops now offer this foam-filling?
Sounds like a great idea and would preclude carrying those spare tailwheel parts and having to worry about tire pressures and of course flat tires. There's gotta be a catch !
Rudy

At the local hardware store today I saw a display by Marathon Tire that had various sizes of small foam-filled tires.

Single-Tire-Display.jpg (11.86 KiB) Viewed 11899 times

Not something to use normally but it looks like something to consider for a spare when out in the boondocks. This one looks like it would fit.

[T. C. Downey]

5. Tire talc is traditionally made of ...well, ....talc.

Actually it's powdered soap stone..

Some folks substitute baby powder. Modern, high-quality baby powder is no longer made of talc. It's made of corn starch which absorbs moisture but does not lubricate the tube/tire. When using talc,...be very careful not to breathe the dust. It's as dangerous as asbestos dust. (It's a mineral which your lungs will not efficiently expell and the body will encapsulate it, possibly forming a future tumor.) But if you use talc inside the tire (and I recommend it) use either tire talc specifically provided for the purpose, or buy cheaper baby powders which are labelled as "talc".

That's because soap stone is a natural substance and your body will not reject it. It simply stays with you like lead, or black lung.

[T. C. Downey]

I have two tail wheel types that I do annuals for, I asked them why they never have a tailwheel flat. the first one said his went flat a while back, and I put a can of fix-a- flat in it and it has been good ever since. The second simply said the tire was on there when I got the aircraft and it has never bother me, so I don't mess with a good thing.

[bagarre]

Before I go cutting a Walmart foam tube to wedge it into my tire, I'd go this route

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... _200473613

With a hand grinder, you can cut the hub flange off to remove the tire easier to you can use your own hub. (Why not make it look legal?)
It's tough to find solid core tires not already mounted on a hub. There are some for electric wheel chairs that are the same size but I doubt they would stand up to the runway. They are non marking...in case you land on a basketball court or something.

Fix-a-flat isn't supposed to be used in tubed tires. In fact, it's supposed to be a road side emergency fix to get you to the tire shop when you don't have a spare. (IMHO) it's just bad form to use that crap in anything except your kid's mini bike tires.

But, any non pneumatic tire that doesn't have to be pressed onto the hub will more than likely spin on the hub when you touch down. Not too many hand trucks are made to hit the ground at 50mph on a regular basis.