VFR only avionics, what setup?

sanships · Post by **sanships** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 4:40 am

Since I will be using the left side radio slot of the panel, how have you setup your avionics and what do you have for those who typically fly VFR only. I am looking at digital radios. Thanks!

N73087 · Post by **N73087** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 9:58 am

If your transponder is not entirely solid state, it will put out a lot of heat. The tube in there gets hot.
I had the transponder mounted below my GPS/COM, and the GPS side kept dropping out. It took a while to figure out that it was the heat from the transponder. I fixed the problem by adding a cooling fan to the GPS. About a year later, the transponder failed, and I went solid state.

Post by **GAHorn** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:00 am

Alvin, you might want to visit with local avionics shops to see what they recommend, unless you are confident you can overcome installation and maintenance/repairs on those installations. The actual unit brand/models are what you are probably inquiring about, but the installation of the radios are the key to long troublefree service. A poorly executed installation is the primary reason for avionics dissatisfaction.
Otherwise, most of the name-brand radios available thru catalog stores are pretty good these days (assuming you're buying new units.) I wouldn't recommend buying used units unless they've been reconditioned by their manufacturer, or you have a good relationship with a local avionics shop who can speak well for whichever used units you are considering.
Having said that...
I have been very happy with the Narco units in my airplane. They are a simple set-up: A single Narco 810 (760 ch. Com with Flip-Flop capability. It also has a simple memory feature which I rarely use, but some people like.) My transponder is a Narco AT-150A, which has an excellent service history, but Narco also has a newer model on the market now, the AT 165. I also have a Narco AR 850 blind encoder. None of these radios have ever given me any trouble. (I thought the Com had a problem and used the Narco factory repair service, but it turned out the problem was actually in my PM-1000 intercom. Narco gave me fast turnaround and a new warranty for my trouble even tho' it wasn't their fault.)
As I mentioned, I have a PM Engineering intercom. It's a good unit, despite a freak failure of an internal relay in cold weather. They repaired it for $25 plus shipping.
I also installed a Bendix/King KLN-88 Loran, and while it's a good unit to have in the U.S., I'd not recommend it for any other area of the globe than North America due to poor Loran coverage (and no database) elsewhere. But for the continental U.S., Alaska, Canada, and the Carribean, it's a good, capable unit. Also, unless you're handy with your own installations, it'll not be the inexpensive back-up navigation radio it proved to be for me.
The best investment I've made in recent history has been a GArmin 196 portable GPS. It comes standard with a mount which very neatly places it on the glareshield like a HUD (Heads-Up-Display). It required no other installation at all (if you don't mind operating on it's internal batteries, but I installed a dedicated power-cord permanently installed with a circuit breaker.) It's self-contained antenna has worked with excellent results in all flight conditions mounted in that location. (Otherwise you might want to use their suction-cup antenna or go with a permanent external antennna. But I've been happy with the built-in/on unit.) That unit has all the features I use most....simple navigation, with instrument approaches also for backup. I can snap it out and take it in the car or on the boat too, because it also has road and marine navigation capability. And it keeps my logbooks electronically which it'll transfer to my PC. (Garmin has more expensive, snazzier units with color and terrain if you want and can afford them. But the 196 is plenty good for aviaiton use. Garmin has recently added obstacles/towers to the 196 features, and the software for it is downloadable from their website.)
I've got an ELT (ACK EO-1) but it's obsolete with the new 406 units now out on the market. I'd recommend you shop around for that, if you're interested, but keep in mind that not all ELT's legal for use in the U.S. can be used abroad. (Even with the newer 406 units, not all of them are legal in some countries. Check with your authorities. The Artex ME406 unit is probably the least expensive unit that can be used over there....abut $1K.) ELT's are one of those things you hope you never need and may have a difficult time justifying....until you need it. You may not have a choice depending upon your regulatory authorities. At least the newer 406 units are more likely to bring a rescue team in a reasonable time-frame than the older units.)
For basic VFR (and even simple IFR) that's all I need. I do carry a hand-held portable as well. (Bendix/King KX-99 but newer units are now available.)
Here's a couple of links you might find useful. (Eastern Avionics has excellent avionics advice in their "Avionics Guidebook" ...click on that icon on their home page and follow the links. http://avionix.com/ (Also, see their "Great Buys" advice. I'm not saying Eastern is really the place to buy....but their avionics advice is some of the best!)
Narco: http://www.narco-avionics.com/

rudymantel · Post by **rudymantel** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 1:41 pm

Alvin, George has offered you some good advice. My only reservation with Narco avionics is that most shops don't work on them and they must be sent to the factory for repairs, which might not be convenient in the Phillipines.
Rudy

Post by **GAHorn** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 5:11 pm

That indeed, appeared to be a drawback to me about Narco.... until I actually used their factory service. If the radio itself is the problem...then it is no more trouble, and a lot faster than most local repair shops. I've found most avionics shops stay busy with "heavy iron" avionics and relegate the light aircraft stuff to the back burner. Local shops also have a difficult time being as "up to date" on repairs and therefore take longer (more $) to make the diagnosis....then more time to order and recieve the necessary parts, and complete the repair.
By shipping (Fed Ex/UPS is worldwide) to the Narco factory, the repair personnel are experienced, knowledgeable, and have parts on-hand with proper test equipment. This makes for fast, competent repairs, with very few "it still doesn't work" complaints. It also carries a nice avionics warranty again. If you simply cannot do without your radio even for a couple of days, they usually also have loaner/rental units they'll ship in advance to you. (You then can use their box to ship your radio to them, and when your radio returns, you ship their loaner back to them in the same convenient box.)
In short, I finally came to the conculsion that shipping back to Narco was at least as convenient if not more in many respects than driving it to the airport that has an authorized repair center for any other brand.
The down-side to this situation is if the problem lies in the Installation. A shop simply has to have your airplane to troubleshoot installation problems, and some shops are reluctant to troubleshoot radio brands they don't also perform repairs on. But this caveat also applies to some other brands such as Becker, Icom, VAL, etc.

dacker · Post by **dacker** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:23 pm

George, does your Garmin 196 interfere with your Magnetic compass being mounted up on the glare shield? My GPSIII swung my compass a good 20 degrees or so when it was less than about a foot from the compass. I mounted mine down below where the mike holder goes via the screw in the back and a remote antenna on the glare shield.
David

rudymantel · Post by **rudymantel** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:57 pm

Yes, in these days of FedEx, UPS and DHL etc. shipping things around the world s much easier than previously. (Dare I say "in my day"?) I recently had to send my VAL 760 to the factory in Oregon. The display was getting very dim- a burned out photoelectric cell. The factory repaired it competently and quickly and upgraded a very early unit to latest specs. The cost was a reasonable $200.
Rudy

trake · Post by **trake** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:51 pm

I relocated my wet compass to in the panel so Icould mount my garmin 3 on the glareshield. I love the GPS at that location, but the compass is useless. I wonder if one of those vertical card compasses would work better in the panel?
George, dumb question: how do you fly IFRapproaches with that set-up? You have no VOR correct ?

Post by **GAHorn** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:10 am

dacker wrote:George, does your Garmin 196 interfere with your Magnetic compass being mounted up on the glare shield? My GPSIII swung my compass a good 20 degrees or so when it was less than about a foot from the compass. I mounted mine down below where the mike holder goes via the screw in the back and a remote antenna on the glare shield.
David

My Garmin 196 does not seem to affect my magnetic compass (which is installed in it's original position in the panel.) I have also used it in other aircraft (Cessna 414, 421, Citation) which had mag compasses mounted hanging from the windshield and it also did not affect them.

Post by **GAHorn** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:16 am

trake wrote:I relocated my wet compass to in the panel so Icould mount my garmin 3 on the glareshield. I love the GPS at that location, but the compass is useless. I wonder if one of those vertical card compasses would work better in the panel?
George, dumb question: how do you fly IFRapproaches with that set-up? You have no VOR correct ?

The vertical-card compasses have been discussed in other threads if you wish to "search" for them using the search routine. My own experience with them has been negative. They are easily injured during installation, are not as durable as traditonal "AirPath" types, and their own idiosyncrasies are masked only because they are so inaccurate/insensitive. IMHO. (Of course, sensitivity is one reason most pilots aren't in love with traditional compasses....but think about it for a moment. If a compass (such as the vert.-card) is designed to ignore sensitivity...then how in the world could it be accurate? Answer: it can't...because it no longer is sensitive to magnetic anomalies.)
Remember, the traditional compass has valuable personality traits: Accelerate North, Decelerate South, (ANDS) etc.