Continental IO-360AF -- money talks

[n2582d]

It's amazing in that less than a year after China buys TCM they come out with the IO-360AF -- AF for "alternative fuel". This comes after years of saying that one should never burn auto gas in your engine. Clearly this is for the Chinese market. Here's what General Aviation News says about it: "One of the markets targeted by Flight Design is China, home to Continental’s parent company, AVIC International Holding Company. My colleague, U-Fuel’s founder and president Michael Webb, spoke with Continental management at the recent AOPA meeting held in China. He commented on the aviation fuel situation there: “I just spoke with the president of Continental Motors today, Rhett Ross, at the first AOPA China meeting. He said they have designed all engines to run on ethanol-free, lead-free 94 octane autogas. In China, 97 octane is available at all fuel stations. Avgas 100LL is distributed by one government-owned company and costs $27.13 US per gallon, when available.” Sure would be nice if Tom Anderson could get this STC'ed for the C-170. Here's a AvWeb video about it.

[minton]

We as a club need to perfect the art of money printing!

[blueldr]

The engine I installed in my '52 C-170B came out of a C-337 and was an IO-360D rated 210 HP @ 2800 RPM
at sea level on a standard day. I never did tell it that I was only feeding it 91 octane, and then later, 87 octane mogas. As a result of its ignorance it gave excellent service thinking that I plying it with "Blue Juice".
I did have excellent instrumentation with which I monitored its operation VERY closely for the first lengthy period of ground and flying operations.
As a result of the above, I can't seem to get too excited over the announcement by Contenantal that they've managed to develop a model of their IO-360 engine that is capable of operating on a mogas of an octane rating well above any fuel I've ever seen for sale to the motoring public in service stations.

P.S. I also forgot to let the engine know that I was unable to find any mogas here in California that did not contain 5% ethanol.

[n2582d]

Reviving an old thread here as I ran across the following ad in Trade-A-Plane:

This seems like a great deal for a IO-360 with only 100 hrs SMOH. Of course who knows how many years ago that was. Moot point in any case as the engines have been sold. This brought up a couple of questions for me though. First, Dick how is it you installed an IO-360D with Tom's STC? Wasn't STC SA00728SE for the -C,-K, or -KB? On second thought you might not be the one to ask about how to comply with with FAA paperwork! This STC has since been revised and now says it is for "various models of the Continental IO-360 engine." Does that mean Tom now has approval for a wider number of IO-360 variants or is it still for the same three? I wonder if Tom's STC might now include the -DB in the above ad. I'm also curious about the McCauley prop used. The -C and -D engines have two 6th order dampers, while the -K, and -KB have one 4 1/2 and one 6th order damper. I'm surprised that they all are approved for using the 2A34C203 prop.

[Metal Master]

Reviving an old thread here as I ran across the following ad in Trade-A-Plane:

image.jpg

This seems like a great deal for a IO-360 with only 100 hrs SMOH. Of course who knows how many years ago that was. Moot point in any case as the engines have been sold. This brought up a couple of questions for me though. First, Dick how is it you installed an IO-360D with Tom's STC? Wasn't STC SA00728SE for the -C,-K, or -KB? On second thought you might not be the one to ask about how to comply with with FAA paperwork! This STC has since been revised and now says it is for "various models of the Continental IO-360 engine." Does that mean Tom now has approval for a wider number of IO-360 variants or is it still for the same three? I wonder if Tom's STC might now include the -DB in the above ad. I'm also curious about the McCauley prop used. The -C and -D engines have two 6th order dampers, while the -K, and -KB have one 4 1/2 and one 6th order damper. I'm surprised that they all are approved for using the 2A34C203 prop.

The operators manual supplement for the this STC on my 170A lists the following TCM engines IO-360-A,-C,-CB,-D,-DB,-G,-GB, -H, -HB, -J or -JB engine. It does not list the K or KB engine as the KB engine in it's stock form is not a 210 HP engine. Although I know that Tom recently bought a new KB engine for one of his customers for installation of this STC, but they are converting the engine to 210 HP.
The STC lists three constant speed and one fixed pitch propellers.
A 2A34C203/90 DCA-10 McCauley propeller. Listed for all models of engine on the STC. It is also the only 80 inch propeller listed. In my opinion the only Viable propeller to use unless you have one of the others listed below laying around as they are older model propellers and harder to come by parts.
The others are a 2A34C209/78CCA and a 2A34C76/76C Both of these propellers are only listed for use on a TCM IO-360-A, -C, or -D engine The G, H, and J engines are not listed for use with these two propellers.
The engine being discussed in the beginning of this post does not seem like a practical engine as yet in the U.S. as we are not selling a 90 octane aviation fuel anywhere. It is being developed for over seas use.

[n2582d]

Jim, That's interesting as John's STC lists the K and KB. Wonder why those would be omitted in the revision.

[Metal Master]

Jim, That's interesting as John's STC lists the K and KB. Wonder why those would be omitted in the revision.

It is possible it was omitted from the current version of the STC. But Tom Anderson is the person to ask. I just have the operating manual supplement for my airplane. I do not know if there are different supplements for other versions of the STC.
He is easy to get in contact with and ask.

[c170b53]

With the AD against the Airmelt crank can you get parts for a K ?

[Metal Master]

With the AD against the Airmelt crank can you get parts for a K ?

Yes, I was able to find new cranks shafts available for all of the engines when I was doing my research. However there is always the chance when the event comes around to need one that it might not be available. The crankshaft part number for a TCM IO-360C11B as mine is was 653138 the part number for a K is 653139. These are part numbers are for the Crankshaft and balance assemblies. The bare crankshaft may be the same part number, it is not listed in the parts catalog on line. A call to TCM or Aircraft Specialties would help make the determination. I had to have new (used serviceable) blades installed on my crankshaft. I still can not see the step in the bushing hole they were rejected for. That being said the K has two different order crankshaft dampers the blades are all the same part number but two of the pins in the K model crankshaft are a different part number making the K crankshaft have one 6th and one 4 1/2 order damper. The C crankshaft two 6th order dampers. And that is what likely drives the difference in the part numbers.

[c170b53]

There's likely a quite a few K's around, as anyone with an XP will be changing it out for a KB . I believe the KB with the VAR crank has a beefed up bottom end thus I don't believe it's just the build of the crank that's different. That would be too easy.
I guess Jim what I'm asking is where does the AD on the crank end? Does it affect all IO-360's or just the K and I would think that likely you would want to avoid that engine because of the AD and maybe that's why it's been dropped from the STC.

[Metal Master]

There's likely a quite a few K's around, as anyone with an XP will be changing it out for a KB . I believe the KB with the VAR crank has a beefed up bottom end thus I don't believe it's just the build of the crank that's different. That would be too easy.
I guess Jim what I'm asking is where does the AD on the crank end? Does it affect all IO-360's or just the K and I would think that likely you would want to avoid that engine because of the AD and maybe that's why it's been dropped from the STC.

The AD affects all Continental engines if the crankshaft is not a VAR crankshaft except that I do not believe it affects O-300 (C-145's) and smaller engines. I have never looked into it. I do not know when they started building the "B" series engines. The B in KB, DB, CB or HB. It has nothing to do with VAR or non VAR crankshafts. You will here people referring to Bumpy back Crankcases, That is because the upper bolt line is raised because the main journals of the crankshafts are larger requiring more material in the crankcase. Thus an entirely different casting for the crankcase is required. That is why if your airplane was originally built with a B series engine you can not install the non B series engine. You can go forward but not backwards in engine models.
I might be that the KB engine is allowed with Tom's STC however it would require a different set of operators manual supplement as the KB is not a 210 HP engine. And the operators manual supplement as made for mine would not work. Tom Anderson is the person to ask.

[c170b53]

Thanks Jim I'm a bit confused as usual, as I thought my engine was a K but I know it has a VAR shaft plus the beefed up rods.

[GAHorn]

Re: the VAR crank versus the AirMelt: When a friend's Baron suffered an inflight loss of oil pressure and the engine seized before I could feather it,...it was decided to swap out both engines for remans.
TCM wanted to charge $8K sur-charge on the old failed engines because they said the old crank couldn't be re-used due to the seizure.
I argued with them by pointing out that the seized crank was unserviceable for re-use anyway since it was an AirMelt, and the other engine was also, and their exchange program did not penalize an exchange for that.
TCM gave full credit for both cranks and we rec'd reman engines with new VAR cranks.

[blueldr]

In reading an above item this thread, I note a question of my installing a "D" model TCM IO-360 engine in my '52 C-170B on Tom Anderson's STC.
I questioned Tom about that at the time that I picked up the engine mount, and he allowed as how that would be OK.

[c170b53]

Latest from the engine shop here in BC; Continental is cutting out the middle man and raising prices. 360 Engine rebuild now costs 45000 Canadian or 36000 US. I might have to walk...
Engine shop now will phase out overhauling Continentals.