Cessna 100 Years

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MoonlightVFR
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Cessna 100 Years

Post by MoonlightVFR »

A recent post about upcoming convention sparked mention of Methuselah's age. 900 Years !

That is quite a stretch. But it got me to thinking about the Cessna 170 being active and airworthy at age 100 years.

Clyde made the first flights in his monoplane named Comet in 1917. So in just about one (1) year a Cessna branded airplane will have existed for 100 years.

It appears that in 32 years the type 170 will be 100 years old.

I know that many members are doing care and restoration to the extend that 100 year old 170s will be operational.

What more can be done to attract young persons to General Aviation?
gradyb, '54 B N2890C
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GAHorn
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Re: Cessna 100 Years

Post by GAHorn »

His FIRST airplane was a monoplane. He built and flew it in 1911. He called it his "Silverwing". (stong resemblance to a Bleriot.)
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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Bruce Fenstermacher
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Re: Cessna 100 Years

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

MoonlightVFR wrote:What more can be done to attract young persons to General Aviation?
Would help if some of the old codgers who are hording their pride and joy that never sees the sky, let them go to someone who will use them for their intended purpose. They were not meant to take up space is a hanger. And they aren't worth what you think. Worth more maybe to see them fly.

If you can't stand to let your baby go or better your still active and using her, be a mentor. Find a younger pilot who can't afford to buy her now and take them flying. Let them use the airplane if you can. There is no better satisfaction watching your plane taken aloft and appreciated by someone who wouldn't other wise have that opportunity.

Chances are someone somewhere did the same for you. Pay it forward.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
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nippaero
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Re: Cessna 100 Years

Post by nippaero »

Bruce Fenstermacher wrote: Would help if some of the old codgers who are hording their pride and joy that never sees the sky, let them go to someone who will use them for their intended purpose. They were not meant to take up space is a hanger. And they aren't worth what you think. Worth more maybe to see them fly.

If you can't stand to let your baby go or better your still active and using her, be a mentor. Find a younger pilot who can't afford to buy her now and take them flying. Let them use the airplane if you can. There is no better satisfaction watching your plane taken aloft and appreciated by someone who wouldn't other wise have that opportunity.

Chances are someone somewhere did the same for you. Pay it forward.
That's what happened to me. April 1st 1996, I was 16 years old and an airport bum. A gentleman gave me my first airplane ride in N8180A. He was 64 at the time. We became friends, he taught me to fly. Many good times in that old airplane followed. He passed away in April of this year. Now I own 8180A and am cleaning her up for the next 20 years.
1952 170B
N8180A s/n 25032
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cessna170bdriver
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Re: Cessna 100 Years

Post by cessna170bdriver »

nippaero wrote:
That's what happened to me. April 1st 1996, I was 16 years old and an airport bum. A gentleman gave me my first airplane ride in N8180A. He was 64 at the time. We became friends, he taught me to fly. Many good times in that old airplane followed. He passed away in April of this year. Now I own 8180A and am cleaning her up for the next 20 years.
I put that story right up there with those who are still flying their father's 170. We have a 1950 A-model still being flown regularly here in Michigan by a gentleman in his mid-70's who, as a pre-teen, went to Wichita with his father to pick it up brand new at the factory.
Miles

“I envy no man that knows more than myself, but pity them that know less.”
— Thomas Browne
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wingnut
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Re: Cessna 100 Years

Post by wingnut »

I would advise anyone expecting their 170 to fly on its 100th birthday to start hoarding engine parts. I believe we, and many others, have established our ability to support these airframes. Technology favors continued support and improved instrumentation and avionics. I think availability of serviceable/eligible engine parts will become an issue in the next decade.
But won't that day be a very big day! To be the first to fly a 100 year old Cessna 170
Del Lehmann
Mena, Arkansas
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pdb
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Re: Cessna 100 Years

Post by pdb »

I just had my engine masterfully overhauled by Mike Patterson for my '53 170b and then installed by Russell Smoot. When its 100, I am going to be 102. Who's going to overhaul me?
Pete Brown
Anchorage, Alaska
N4563C 1953 170B
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2366/2527 ... 4e43_b.jpg
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sfarringer
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Re: Cessna 100 Years

Post by sfarringer »

wingnut wrote: But won't that day be a very big day! To be the first to fly a 100 year old Cessna 170
Those of us with 48's will have first crack at it!
But I'll be 93........
Ragwing S/N 18073
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wingnut
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Re: Cessna 100 Years

Post by wingnut »

sfarringer wrote:
wingnut wrote: But won't that day be a very big day! To be the first to fly a 100 year old Cessna 170
Those of us with 48's will have first crack at it!
But I'll be 93........
John Miller was still very healthy, active, and piloting at that age. Haven't checked lately, but I think he became the worlds oldest pilot (actively engaged) not very many moons ago. I'll have to Google that, but my point here is......LIVE UNTIL YOU DIE.
Unless regulations change, there is no reason standing in the way for many folks here right now on this forum to be the first, and many more to follow as their aircraft celebrate 100 years since birth. In this case, birth being a subjective date of which it either received its airworthiness certificate, or has an historical record of first flight. I plan on being alive and well for this moment, and would love the opportunity to be involved. (Of course I'd really like for it to be an aircraft that has been restored by Mountain Airframe with my name in the log :wink: )
Del Lehmann
Mena, Arkansas
hilltop170
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Re: Cessna 100 Years

Post by hilltop170 »

wingnut wrote:but my point here is......LIVE UNTIL YOU DIE.
Unless regulations change, there is no reason standing in the way for many folks here right now on this forum to be the first, and many more to follow as their aircraft celebrate 100 years since birth. In this case, birth being a subjective date of which it either received its airworthiness certificate, or has an historical record of first flight. I plan on being alive and well for this moment, and would love the opportunity to be involved. (Of course I'd really like for it to be an aircraft that has been restored by Mountain Airframe with my name in the log :wink: )

N1715D and I are both 1951 models. I plan on being around another 35 years and the restoration you finished on 15D in 2009 will be just about ready for another refresher about that time. I would be honored to have you to sign off the logbooks again, for the second time.
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
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GAHorn
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Re: Cessna 100 Years

Post by GAHorn »

wingnut wrote:I would advise anyone expecting their 170 to fly on its 100th birthday to start hoarding engine parts.....
Surely that is an anecdote about your well-deserved airframe capabilities rather than a true belief engine parts are endangered.
This engine is one of the most numerous (numbering in the tens-of-thousands) ever built (exceeded only by some military-application engines like the P&W 1830s) and I seriously doubt that anyone reading these forums need to hoard parts to keep one running. The Franklins are a much more endangered engine (absolutely NO cranks available.)
The O-300 cases and sumps are actually quite numerous, despite the occasional story someone is having a nightmare about their sump. The cranks and cams and gears and cylinders/etc. are all quite available for the next 100 years. (If a Kinner or Ranger or OX5 or etc etc can still be rebuilt I have little concern about the availability of O-300 parts.)

Then there are the conversion possibilities.

Yes, price is always an issue, but these engines are not yet in the "collectable" category. In fact, that is one of the reasons the Cessna 170 is a real value in classic airplanes... It's maintainability.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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wingnut
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Re: Cessna 100 Years

Post by wingnut »

gahorn wrote:
wingnut wrote:I would advise anyone expecting their 170 to fly on its 100th birthday to start hoarding engine parts.....
Surely that is an anecdote about your well-deserved airframe capabilities rather than a true belief engine parts are endangered.
This engine is one of the most numerous (numbering in the tens-of-thousands) ever built (exceeded only by some military-application engines like the P&W 1830s) and I seriously doubt that anyone reading these forums need to hoard parts to keep one running. The Franklins are a much more endangered engine (absolutely NO cranks available.)
The O-300 cases and sumps are actually quite numerous, despite the occasional story someone is having a nightmare about their sump. The cranks and cams and gears and cylinders/etc. are all quite available for the next 100 years. (If a Kinner or Ranger or OX5 or etc etc can still be rebuilt I have little concern about the availability of O-300 parts.)

Then there are the conversion possibilities.

Yes, price is always an issue, but these engines are not yet in the "collectable" category. In fact, that is one of the reasons the Cessna 170 is a real value in classic airplanes... It's maintainability.
George,
My plan is to retire my 'CB' handle, "wingnut", and reintroduce myself as "Buzzkill".
This is certainly a topic I'd prefer to be wrong on, and very well could be. Parts procurement is something I do everyday. Of course my experience is primarily aircraft structures, but I do speak with many engine shops. You have an optimistic view and that's good.
I agree these series engines have not attained collector status. They have reached the status of being an early version of engines that TCM (now CMI) has dropped continued support. The 470 series is a later design that is treated like a red headed step child. I admit my advice could be premature, but it is grounded with an historical record of what happens rather quickly when companies and inventories consolidate under one umbrella. The bean counters have decided it best to make 10 sales at $1,000 each, rather than 1,000 sales at $10 or $50 each. You will soon see this with "old" engines parts inventories. The 'hoarders' will be in the catbird seat, and the OEM's have little interest competing to keep a 70+ year old design flying. It'll happen as it has with airframe parts, and there is more commonality among similar airframes than there is with engines.
Hate to sound like a Debbie downer, but this industry is changing rapidly. If you watch it closely you will notice near zero newly birthed companies coming in to support old design on a grand scale. The few that have tried get "AD'd" out of business, or bought out.
If you are suggesting there is some massive stockpiles of C145/O-300 parts out there, I will not dispute that, but I will say if such exist those parts will share the same fate as the airframe parts have; they will be looked upon as an investment and bought up by a few (very few) hoarders. These parts can be bought at exponentially increasing prices until they are gone.
It's easier for me and other structures shops to local fab a bulkhead or compound curvature cowling skin, that are no longer available than it is for an engine shop to local fab a cam gear, or sump, or mount leg (speaking of mount legs, do you know the price of the bolts that clamp the unique shock mounts in cost? $178 each. 8 bolts per installation).
My advice to cabbage on to engine parts if you can; just saying if you can, and you have a desire to fly your original Cessna 170* on her 100th birthday, right now is the best time you'll ever have to insure you can reasonably afford to do so.
My advice is not for myself, nor for those very wealthy and of age to see that day. My advice is for the average Cessna 170 owner, with average means to support their habit, who is of an age they could and would.........fly when that future birthdate celebration arrives.
Del Lehmann
Mena, Arkansas
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