A Question On Aircraft Registration

[GAHorn]

No... a certificate never expires. A license has a period of validity and an expiration date.

[KG]

No... a certificate never expires. A license has a period of validity and an expiration date.

I dunno George.. I don't often disagree with you but I'm pretty sure my Flight Instructor Certificate expired in 1989.

FAR 61.19 d --
(d) Flight instructor certificate. Except as specified in §61.197(b), a flight instructor certificate expires 24 calendar months from the month in which it was issued, renewed, or reinstated, as appropriate.

[jrenwick]

More on flying in Europe: it turns out, bizarre as it seems to me, that there is a distinction between EASA and non-EASA aircraft. You need an EASA "licence," (British terminology) or an EASA validation on your US or Canadian certificate, to fly EASA aircraft in Europe. The validation is good for one year. I don't know for sure, but I suspect it requires a Class I or Class II medical certificate or the equivalent.

Non-EASA aircraft are covered under "national" rules, not EASA. They include amateur-built, microlights, ex-military aircraft, vintage aircraft, and some others. England has a non-EASA National Private Pilot Licence (NPPL) with relaxed medical requirements. To fly a non-EASA aircraft in the U.K., this is all you need. An FAA private pilot certificate with the required medical certificate is recognized in England for the same privileges as the NPPL. France, Germany, etc. may have similar national rules that would allow you to fly non-EASA aircraft, but I didn't look into that.

Some details of the UK's national rules are here: http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=2704

Here's the list of EASA small aircraft. Note that Cessna 120, 140 and 170 are not included:

EASA PRODUCT LIST - Small Aeroplanes.pdf

(328.09 KiB) Downloaded 422 times

(You can download the lists of all EASA aircraft of all types here: http://easa.europa.eu/node/15655)

So for almost any flying you might want to do in Europe, George is right: you need the EASA validation of your US certificate each year. But there are exceptions, and it's still legal to fly a European-registered Cessna 170 "over there," at least in the U.K., using a US Private Pilot Certificate, day VFR only.

There are lots of other interesting aircraft missing from the EASA list, including all the ragwing Pipers (which you'll find plenty of in Europe), my Swift, etc. etc. Flying in Europe is an amazing experience, if you have a friend who can guide you. If you do it, you'll come home with a new appreciation of the blessings we enjoy as GA pilots in the US.

[GAHorn]

No... a certificate never expires. A license has a period of validity and an expiration date.

I dunno George.. I don't often disagree with you but I'm pretty sure my Flight Instructor Certificate expired in 1989.

FAR 61.19 d --
(d) Flight instructor certificate. Except as specified in §61.197(b), a flight instructor certificate expires 24 calendar months from the month in which it was issued, renewed, or reinstated, as appropriate.

I thought we were discussing PILOT documents. (The CERTIFICATED instructor's document has a regulated expiry the PILOT certificate does not. It also is only valid if an assocated pilot certificate is valid.)

The legal definition difference might be stated in this way: A License is permission to perform or practice a particular activity. A Certificate is a testimonial of having met requirements or knowledge necessary to perform or practice a particular activity.

Anyway, EASA issues licenses. FAA issues certificates.

[blueldr]

Many years ago I had to take a FUZZ ride and the FUZZ tried to tell me my "Certificate" number was invalid because it was not my Social Security number. I kind of think he was pretty new at the job. I was issued my numbered Commercial Certificate upon graduation from US Army pilot training in the big war after taking and passing an exam on the "CARs". (FARs now) They did not use SSANs for anything other than Social Security in those days. I never did have a private Certificate. I also used to get quizzed about my certificate number when filing a flight plan in some flight service stations. It was surprizing how many employees of the FUZZ used to refer to it as a "License",number.

[GAHorn]

Yes, and it's surprising that a federal agency would use a SSN as an identification of any kind since the SS card specifically states that it is not valid for identification. (Not to mention the loss of privacy ...which the feds also warn us to protect.)

Of course, the SSN was used in the 80s/90s and then they realized their error and offered all certificate holders to convert to a random assigned number. (On medical certs and new pilot cert applications (Form 8410) they suggest that instead of the SSN to insert "Do Not Use" so a new random number can be issued.)

I obtained my first pilot cert in 1970 and it is in the 201XXXX range. I once had a friend who wanted to fly my Baron and, to put him on insurance when I asked him his cert no, he immediately began to quote it to me.... I said, "Hold on, let me get a pencil!".... whereupon he said, "You don't need to write it down.... it's 123456-eight!"
If he'd applied ten seconds earlier Bill would have had a perfect sequence!

One of our "old timers" in HOU-QB , Cliff Condit, had CAA license no. 6. It was signed by Orville Wright.

[blueldr]

My certificate has six digits and there are, or were, 327,739 ahead of me.

[GAHorn]

My certificate has six digits and there are, or were, 327,739 ahead of me.

FAA is now issuing ten-digit numbers (although the first three are zeros. I guess they're planning ahead.)