Hi all,
I'm 54, a new member and a new pilot. I got my Private in December and I'm looking for a 170 as my first plane. I'm currently getting tail wheel training in a C140 and have 9.3 hours. Training again this Saturday and having fun!
I have plans to look at a 170A in Florida next weekend. Are there any 170 specific items I should be on the look-out for?
Thanks,
JP
New Pilot / Member Inspection questions
Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher
New Pilot / Member Inspection questions
C170A N1714D
My First Airplane!
My First Airplane!
Re: New Pilot / Member Inspection questions
WELCOME!
You're in the right place to ask questions, and you'll get lots of answers.
You'll want to be knowledgeable about which mods have been made and look for documentation on each.
Conditon, Corrosion, and complete records are important issues.
Look at the tailwheel mounting bracket (where the tailwheel leaf\springs attach to the fuselage.) If it's a small, steel bracket, look-out for cracks. If it's a large, aluminum bracket, then it's been repaired to the later type.
Look at the condition of the doorposts, front and rear, because this is where the strength of the fuselage is formed. No obvious stress, wrinkles there.
Look at the gearbox for the same. (Lie on your back and look up at the area between the main gear legs. Look for signs of wrinkling, cracking, etc..)
Look inside wings, wing-root, spar-attach and carry-through (above the headliner) for signs of corrosion. Look at those bolts that attach the wing spar to the carry-through. If they're rusted....not a good sign of past maintenance.
All the usual engine stuff like oil, hoses, run-up, prop condition, etc..
If it still looks good, ....and the price is in the ballpark.... hire an A&P-IA to perform a complete annual inspection.
Search these forums for "pre-buy inspection" (a type of inspection which has no definition or legal-bearing, but the topic will further your investigation and explain why you really want a full, annual inspection.)
Glad you're here!
You're in the right place to ask questions, and you'll get lots of answers.
You'll want to be knowledgeable about which mods have been made and look for documentation on each.
Conditon, Corrosion, and complete records are important issues.
Look at the tailwheel mounting bracket (where the tailwheel leaf\springs attach to the fuselage.) If it's a small, steel bracket, look-out for cracks. If it's a large, aluminum bracket, then it's been repaired to the later type.
Look at the condition of the doorposts, front and rear, because this is where the strength of the fuselage is formed. No obvious stress, wrinkles there.
Look at the gearbox for the same. (Lie on your back and look up at the area between the main gear legs. Look for signs of wrinkling, cracking, etc..)
Look inside wings, wing-root, spar-attach and carry-through (above the headliner) for signs of corrosion. Look at those bolts that attach the wing spar to the carry-through. If they're rusted....not a good sign of past maintenance.
All the usual engine stuff like oil, hoses, run-up, prop condition, etc..
If it still looks good, ....and the price is in the ballpark.... hire an A&P-IA to perform a complete annual inspection.
Search these forums for "pre-buy inspection" (a type of inspection which has no definition or legal-bearing, but the topic will further your investigation and explain why you really want a full, annual inspection.)
Glad you're here!
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
Re: New Pilot / Member Inspection questions
Gahorn,
Thanks so much for the pointers. I'll take the list with me and inspect each item.
Can the carry-through and wing spar bolts be inspected through the zippered part of the headliner or should I remove part of the headliner to see them?
Thanks again for for your help!
JP White
Hammond, LA
Thanks so much for the pointers. I'll take the list with me and inspect each item.
Can the carry-through and wing spar bolts be inspected through the zippered part of the headliner or should I remove part of the headliner to see them?
Thanks again for for your help!
JP White
Hammond, LA
C170A N1714D
My First Airplane!
My First Airplane!
Re: New Pilot / Member Inspection questions
Welcome to the 170 Association!
The wing spar bolts are viewable after removing the wing root fairings.
From the headliner, you can inspect the general condition of the roof skins and the outside of the carry thru spar. The real concern is on the inside of the carry thru but there isn't a way to inspect the inside without removing the wings.
Another place that I've found corrosion to be common is up under the instrument panel. Folks will stuff insulation up there and it traps moisture. Laying on your back with the rudder pedals as a headrest will get you a good view - with a bright light. That's a good time to check all the wires up there for general condition.
I'll second the "Pre-Buy" comment. If at all possible, get your IA to do an annual inspection prior to purchasing the airplane.
-David
The wing spar bolts are viewable after removing the wing root fairings.
From the headliner, you can inspect the general condition of the roof skins and the outside of the carry thru spar. The real concern is on the inside of the carry thru but there isn't a way to inspect the inside without removing the wings.
Another place that I've found corrosion to be common is up under the instrument panel. Folks will stuff insulation up there and it traps moisture. Laying on your back with the rudder pedals as a headrest will get you a good view - with a bright light. That's a good time to check all the wires up there for general condition.
I'll second the "Pre-Buy" comment. If at all possible, get your IA to do an annual inspection prior to purchasing the airplane.
-David
Re: New Pilot / Member Inspection questions
Welcome to the association and good on you for taking up a flying. No pressure, you have undertaken an endeavour that most take lifetime to master. You'll just have to fast track yourself 
and you're going about it the right way!
Learning on a 140 will make the transition to a 170 easy. Joining our group, heh, heh, need I say more! Asking what to look for when buying a plane...excellent. Based on your response to locating a component on our planes suggests to me your next move will be getting your head around who you should choose to inspect and carry out an annual inspection on your new plane.
Here's the problem. It takes a lifetime to learn all the aspects and skills involved in maintaining an airplane.
You're looking at a 60 ish old aircraft. Someone will have to evaluate it and determine condition the following; power plant, avionics, interior furnishings, landing gear. The aircraft must be inspected to determine its structual integrity, conformity to the type certificate, the aircrafts modification status and the repair history.
Here's the final rub; based on the type certificate these airplanes are inspected on the basis of "On condition" and thus that determination can be subjective. What maybe acceptable to one inspector may be a show stopper for another. Choose your next steps carefully when purchasing a plane.
By all means poke around airplanes and look yourself. The more you look the more you'll understand the problem.
Lastly, get a small new piece of aluminum 2024t. Rub your fingers across it, now you know what you should find when you open up a panel in the wing and rub the metal inside. If you look inside a wing and see white spots but the metal is smooth, you're seeing the beginning of a process called corrosion. If the metal feels a bit rough like 400 grit sand paper then the corrosion is a bit further along. If you open a panel and find 100 grit, your looking at a plane that has spent its life in an corrosive environment.
The person you'll hire will have to judge whether what he sees is acceptable and airworthy and he's going to find something in between those values.
You'll want to find someone who knows cessna 170's well. Take your time. There's good planes out there.
I'll speak for myself here, I made more than a few mistakes when buying a plane and I work in aviation, but I'm also guessing I'm not alone here.
I don't know your background, whether it would help you understand or hinder in your understanding mechanical devices. Owning a plane is easy, learning to take care of it is easy too, it just takes time. So my advice would be, get a guy like Del to keep his eyes out for a good one or for that matter someone else that knows these airplanes really well.
and you're going about it the right way! Learning on a 140 will make the transition to a 170 easy. Joining our group, heh, heh, need I say more! Asking what to look for when buying a plane...excellent. Based on your response to locating a component on our planes suggests to me your next move will be getting your head around who you should choose to inspect and carry out an annual inspection on your new plane.
Here's the problem. It takes a lifetime to learn all the aspects and skills involved in maintaining an airplane.
You're looking at a 60 ish old aircraft. Someone will have to evaluate it and determine condition the following; power plant, avionics, interior furnishings, landing gear. The aircraft must be inspected to determine its structual integrity, conformity to the type certificate, the aircrafts modification status and the repair history.
Here's the final rub; based on the type certificate these airplanes are inspected on the basis of "On condition" and thus that determination can be subjective. What maybe acceptable to one inspector may be a show stopper for another. Choose your next steps carefully when purchasing a plane.
By all means poke around airplanes and look yourself. The more you look the more you'll understand the problem.
Lastly, get a small new piece of aluminum 2024t. Rub your fingers across it, now you know what you should find when you open up a panel in the wing and rub the metal inside. If you look inside a wing and see white spots but the metal is smooth, you're seeing the beginning of a process called corrosion. If the metal feels a bit rough like 400 grit sand paper then the corrosion is a bit further along. If you open a panel and find 100 grit, your looking at a plane that has spent its life in an corrosive environment.
The person you'll hire will have to judge whether what he sees is acceptable and airworthy and he's going to find something in between those values.
You'll want to find someone who knows cessna 170's well. Take your time. There's good planes out there.
I'll speak for myself here, I made more than a few mistakes when buying a plane and I work in aviation, but I'm also guessing I'm not alone here.
I don't know your background, whether it would help you understand or hinder in your understanding mechanical devices. Owning a plane is easy, learning to take care of it is easy too, it just takes time. So my advice would be, get a guy like Del to keep his eyes out for a good one or for that matter someone else that knows these airplanes really well.
Last edited by c170b53 on Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jim McIntosh..
1953 C170B S/N 25656
02 K1200RS
1953 C170B S/N 25656
02 K1200RS
-
cessna170bdriver
- Posts: 4062
- Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2002 5:13 pm
Re: New Pilot / Member Inspection questions
Welcome to the wonderful world of Cessna 170's, JP!
Keep us up to date on your search.
Keep us up to date on your search.
Miles
“I envy no man that knows more than myself, but pity them that know less.”
— Thomas Browne
“I envy no man that knows more than myself, but pity them that know less.”
— Thomas Browne
Re: New Pilot / Member Inspection questions
Thanks Guys for the information and the encouragement. I'm getting my tools and 170 specific inspection list together. A local A&P has a cherry 170A that he rebuilt and I'll get to look at it tomorrow. I'll ask him how he would inspect a 170. This will give me a chance to locate the inspection panels... Looking forward to next weekends 170 inspection.
JP
JP
C170A N1714D
My First Airplane!
My First Airplane!
Re: New Pilot / Member Inspection questions
Welcome to the association and to the wonderful world of aviation. This is a great organization with lots of knowledge and you are on the right track by asking questions. When you find the plane you hope to purchase, as George says, hire a good A&P to do a full annual inspection as that can tell you a lot about the condition of your prospective purchase. Do your best to find an A&P that has not been associated with the current owner. You want an unbiased opinion.
Good hunting and keep us informed on how it is going!
Good hunting and keep us informed on how it is going!
OLE POKEY
170C
Director:
2012-2018
170C
Director:
2012-2018