Installing A TCM IO360

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Metal Master
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by Metal Master »

Update:
I received the engine yesterday afternoon and installed it on the engine stand in my shop. I have taken some pictures as received for documentation and comparison to the drawings prior to disassembly. I am Happy to discover that by serial number of the engine and crankshaft serial number that this engine was built by TCM with a VAR crank shaft for those that know what that means. Essentially in a sudden stoppage inspection or any dis-assembly of the IO360 and up engines that TCM builds if you have an engine with NON VAR crank shaft the crank shaft has to be replaced regardless of the condition of the crankshaft. The engine arrived with all accessories generator, prop governor, hydraulic pump, hoses fuel pump, fuel metering unit, air filter and baffling installed. The starter will have to be replaced with a 12 volt starter. A new 12 volt SKY-Tec starter is 9 lbs lighter than the currently installed 24 volt starter. Driven 24 volt alternator will have to be changed out for a 12 volt starter. I do not have a need for a hydraulic pump. Just another item to have lying around my shop as a curiosity.
I have received all of my new baffling materials, manifold pressure fuel flow instrument and the prop is being overhauled to 0 time. I had a fun time at the hangar last night. I do not know why I enjoy this stuff. I just do.
Heres hoping all of the engine internals pass inspection at Aircraft Specialties
.
Regards,
Jim
A&P, IA, New owner C170A N1208D, Have rebuilt some 50 aircraft. So many airplanes, So little time!
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c170b53
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by c170b53 »

I think there's more to it then just the shaft when changing out to a VAR.
Jim McIntosh..
1953 C170B S/N 25656
02 K1200RS
Metal Master
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by Metal Master »

c170b53 wrote:I think there's more to it then just the shaft when changing out to a VAR.
Actually as far as the crank shaft is concerned TCM for approximately $5,500 provides a new crankshaft exchanged for the NON VAR crankshaft with all Harmonic blades bushings ready to install. Of course that does not include bearings and all of the work required to get the engine apart and back together. TCM now has on their web sight a complete listing of all service bulletins and parts catalogs that can be custom tailored to your specific engine and engine specification if you know the specifcation for free. TCM for what ever reason (I do not know} does not have free access to their Overhaul Manuals. I have the manual however I have maintained numerous Moony, Piper Senecas and Sky masters with the TSIO version of this engine installed. The TSIO versions of this engine operate at 40 inches of manifold pressure with the Turbo. All of these engines were Factory re-manufactured and all of them made it to TBO without having mid life cylinder work performed and still had high compression's when removed for 135 operations at TBO. But hopefully I will not have to pay that $5,500. All steel parts have to go out for inspection, Rods gears Cam etc., etc. Premier aircraft engine in Troutdale Oregon charges $9,000 to do a sudden stoppage inspection. That does not include any cylinder work. I plan to perform all of this work myself sending parts out to Aircraft Specialties estimated out of pocket costs to AS is $1,000. Attached are a couple of pictures of the engine as received from Dawson aircraft. I have done a sudden stoppage inspection before on PIO'd Mooney with a TSIO 360 GB engine. That is a story that I would have to write book about to relate here.
Engine time since TCM factory Re-manufacture 980 hours. Once I am done with the engine it will be a fresh bottom end overhaul with recondition cylinders.
Jim
Attachments
Arrival Of Engine 06-24-14 005.JPG
Arrival Of Engine 06-24-14 003.JPG
Arrival Of Engine 06-24-14 001.JPG
A&P, IA, New owner C170A N1208D, Have rebuilt some 50 aircraft. So many airplanes, So little time!
Metal Master
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by Metal Master »

[quote="johneeb"]Jim,
Strictly for cabin heat, as you know the FMU regular air intake is a "Y" pipe with an filter on one branch and the other alternate branch I plumbed to the low pressure side of the baffling in case the snow god some how packed the cowling with snow there is still an air source (it could happen, I hope I am home in bed when it does).


John, = Johneeb
I had sent you a PM regarding the spinner you used. after looking at some of the pictures and comments you used I see that you used a fixed pitch propeller on your installation. If you do not have copy of the Book " Cessna Wings for the World" written by William D. Thompson, I Highly recommend it's reading some of the test flight experiences and the development of the 170, 172, R172 series with the TCM IO360 series engine installed are enlightening at the least. Particularly the USAF's experience in operating the R172 with a fixed pitch propeller.
Regards,
Jim
A&P, IA, New owner C170A N1208D, Have rebuilt some 50 aircraft. So many airplanes, So little time!
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Ryan Smith
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by Ryan Smith »

Metal Master wrote:
johneeb wrote:Jim,
Strictly for cabin heat, as you know the FMU regular air intake is a "Y" pipe with an filter on one branch and the other alternate branch I plumbed to the low pressure side of the baffling in case the snow god some how packed the cowling with snow there is still an air source (it could happen, I hope I am home in bed when it does).


John, = Johneeb
I had sent you a PM regarding the spinner you used. after looking at some of the pictures and comments you used I see that you used a fixed pitch propeller on your installation. If you do not have copy of the Book " Cessna Wings for the World" written by William D. Thompson, I Highly recommend it's reading some of the test flight experiences and the development of the 170, 172, R172 series with the TCM IO360 series engine installed are enlightening at the least. Particularly the USAF's experience in operating the R172 with a fixed pitch propeller.
Regards,
Jim
John's airplane has a constant speed propeller. It's a heck of a performer.
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johneeb
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by johneeb »

Jim,
I do not have any specific pictures of my prop however this one shows that it is a constant speed. The spinner was found and supplied by Tom Anderson and is I think the closest in appearance to the original 170b spinner. The spinner did require some modification, that is reversing the backing plate and re-drilling the spinner to backing plate attach screws. I do not seem to have any information about the spinners original aircraft, maybe Tom can help with that.
170 progress    2004-11-27 009.jpg
John E. Barrett
aka. Johneb

Sent from my "Cray Super Computer"
Metal Master
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by Metal Master »

Well So far things are going well with getting things together for the Installation of a TCM IO360 in the 170A.
I got the engine taken apart last week end and all of the steel parts outside of the Crankshaft have passed NDI. The crankshaft is on a Truck heading to Aircraft Specialties in Tulsa. I found a new McCauley spinner (polished) in the Box at Half price of new it is setting on my Kitchen table. It is a good thing Phyllis likes airplanes. The engine crankcase passed Zyglo inspection and it looks new. The accessory case and oil cooler housing came out of the heated ultrasonic cleaner looking new.
The Mags will go to Aircraft Magneto Service for overhaul. They have not been touched in 980 hours since new except for a capacitor change in the left mag. The sudden stoppage requires that they get an overhaul anyway.
I found the correct McCauley prop governor overhauled by Santa Monica propeller with 75 hours since overhaul for an exceptional price. My local prop governor shop Southwest Aero is setting it up for me at no cost just for the Core of the Woodward governor I removed from the engine as received form Dawson AC.
As it turns out the Crankshaft is a VAR crankshaft as determined by the serial number of the crank and the fact that it has VAR cast into the crank. Here’s hoping it passes the sudden stoppage inspection at Aircraft Specialties. The Cam went with the Crankshaft in the box provided by Aircraft Specialties.
Avian Aeronautics is replacing the rod bushings and providing new rod bolts & nuts.
I have all of the airframe parts in hand except for the electric fuel pump which I am not going to order until that last minute. I still need two resistors and a SPDT switch. And David (bagarre) you were right the fire wall fuel shut of is the most ridiculous priced part of this whole project. I did find a serviceable one for $717 that included the core
My FAA PMI was by the shop last week and I went over the details of the owner produced parts I am making for the STC. He said that other than having the NDI inspections of the engine mount I am having Tom Anderson build for me that there is nothing else I need to do to certify the parts beyond my own inspection. And that I can install them with no more paper work beyond that I installed them in accordance with the STC which in its verbiage allows the owner produced parts. In fact my PMI said that I could have Tom manufacture and install the mount as long as I did the required inspection. (Not likely to happen but it does to tell) It will get a Magna flux inspection once complete which I have already arranged.
The new “0”time since overhauled propeller is setting in the prop shop waiting for me the tell them to assemble it. Which I am going to wait until the last minute so that it is not growing older while it sits.
The project is on
A&P, IA, New owner C170A N1208D, Have rebuilt some 50 aircraft. So many airplanes, So little time!
bagarre
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by bagarre »

Wow! You'll be done with yours before me.

We're looking at November before we take 81D out of service. In the mean time, we have most all of FWF including the motor mount lined up to be ready by then. I don't want to stop flying until the last minute when I have to send the fuel tanks out for vents.
At first, I was going to go fixed pitch (even bought two off blueldr) but we found a constant speed for cheap that we can have cut down and re-indexed. The motor we found is from a HawkXP so it has the right everything including the exhaust already.

Maybe we should think about a short field competition at next year's convention :lol:
Metal Master
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by Metal Master »

[quote="bagarre"]Wow! You'll be done with yours before me.

I don't think so things will slow down immeasurably as the summer goes on. We are planning a trip to Smiley Creek in late august . That is if the rest of the world east of the Cascades does not catch on fire.
I want to keep the 170 flying as long as a can as well.
Do well Jim
A&P, IA, New owner C170A N1208D, Have rebuilt some 50 aircraft. So many airplanes, So little time!
Metal Master
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by Metal Master »

Update on whats going on with the TCM IO360:
Harold at Aircraft Specialties’ just called to give me the low down on my crankshaft. Apparently it passed mag and ultra sonic inspection. However the main bearing journals need to be turned down 10 thousandths .010. that’s about the thickness of two wraps of aluminum foil. That causes the crank shaft to have be re-nitrided. (Heat Treat). Then it has to be Magna-fluxed and ultra sound checked again it adds about $560 to the job. I am going scrap two cylinders on the engine #5 & # 6 cylinders because #6 is to corroded on the inside and would a have to be bored to the next larger sized piston. The number #5 cylinder is being scrapped because the exhaust valve was stuck in the guide and hit the piston. #5 is the only cylinder replaced since the engine was new and the work was performed by a repair station. Obviously the Guide was not fit properly. (I wonder if that is what lead to the gear up of the Skymaster). That basically scraps the piston, piston pin, valve & guide. And then it would have to be board out to the next size piston to match the opposite #6 piston. By the time all that work is accomplished I may as well have bought new cylinders. $1,438 each which come with new pistons, rings, rocker shafts and new intake and exhaust valves from Teledyne Continental Motors. Pre fit & ready to go. Less piston pins. The camshaft passed magna flux and dimensional check inspection and is getting polished an parkerized. I have decided to replace all of the valve lifters just for my piece of mind. The balance weights did not pass physical inspection and will have to be replaced. The rest of the cylinders and pistons have so far passed my inspection and have been glass bead blasted and cleaned. I checked the Cylinder bores last night with bore gauge and they all look to be still at new limits. I still need to perform a detailed inspection on the cylinders & pistons but physically I do not expect any issues. I have ordered the gasket set and will start assembling the starter drive and rear accessory gear box pretty soon. Aviall has the parts in stock but still has not shipped after a week & a half. I need to order piston rings’ & bearings but I need to know how everything checks out before making that order.
I have to work on the Comanche this last Saturday and get ready to do the annual inspection on it. We are still dealing with the High TIT problem that Paul is having on his P210 and that is all taking some of my time. I spent 10 hours polishing the tail on the 170 weekend before last. She is looking pretty.
Game On
I now own the 170 outright and have added Phyllis as a co-owner to the new registration. I feel good being the sole owner of the airplane however I see I will need to increase my hull value on the insurance policy. But I will not be able to do that until the registration actually gets changed on the Federal register.
A&P, IA, New owner C170A N1208D, Have rebuilt some 50 aircraft. So many airplanes, So little time!
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GAHorn
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by GAHorn »

Metal Master wrote:...I now own the 170 outright and have added Phyllis as a co-owner to the new registration. I feel good being the sole owner of the airplane however I see I will need to increase my hull value on the insurance policy. But I will not be able to do that until the registration actually gets changed on the Federal register.
Is "Phyllis" your significant other?
I had Jamie on the registration of our Baron and it became a beaurecratic nightmare to simply sell the airplane due to an FAA nutcase who required two notorizations on the Bill of Sale. (Took three round-trip document efforts between home and OKC.)
Now It's just me on the certificate, but both of us are really owners in this "common law" state.

(Another example: one of you dies, and because both on the registration, it can be a troublesome matter for the other to do anything with the airplane without the deceased's signature. Try THAT at the funeral home. Think: Cert of Death, power of atty, executor's timelines, etc.)
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
Metal Master
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by Metal Master »

Is "Phyllis" your significant other?
I had Jamie on the registration of our Baron and it became a bureaucratic nightmare to simply sell the airplane due to an FAA nutcase who required two notarizations on the Bill of Sale.
Gahorn
It is easy to get notarization it is harder to stay married for 39 years. Phyllis and I are business partners and friends. I have been helping people buy and sell airplanes for most of my 42 years working as an aircraft mechanic. It can be difficult. I have friend who is going through the same thing right now. Her husband just retired from a major airline an then he passed away and she is named co-owner on both of their airplanes. That's part of life.
Thanks for bringing it up, I doubt I will ever untangle all of or stuff if she passes before me.
Regards,
Jim
A&P, IA, New owner C170A N1208D, Have rebuilt some 50 aircraft. So many airplanes, So little time!
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GAHorn
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by GAHorn »

Yes, first we both signed the Bill of Sale.
Then the buyer's lender wanted duplicate originals.
Then FAA-OKC wanted originals with TWO notorizations.
Then the lender wanted duplicates that copied the two notorizations.
Then our bank refused to honor the check written to only one of us.
Then the substitute check did not match the sales letter of agreement and the lender wanted to start a new application....
...and on, and on. ad nauseum....
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
Metal Master
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by Metal Master »

TCM IO 360 Install Update:
I have been making steady progress on the engine lately. I received two standard engine ready cylinders from Chuck Ney Enterprises last week with Standard pistons and pins and .005 oversize rings ready to install. These were to replace the #5 & #6 cylinders which had issues. I had planned to buy new cylinders but a large Vet bill losing one of my dogs to liver cancer took a big cut into my engine fund. I recently adopted another hound Sally a 2-1/2 year old Blue Tic mix. She’s a sweet heart. I digress. Any way I got two cylinders for less than the price for one new cylinder. Lots of issues to consider in that.
The bearing sets took longer to get than I had expected three weeks and $1500 dollars for the .010 under sized main bearing set. Ouch. I got the four other cylinders honed the valves ground, installed and the aluminum part of the heads alodined and the cylinders painted ready for install. This last three weeks I got the bearings checked in the rods and mains and the crank case alodined. Over the week end I got crank case assembled with the cam shaft and crankshaft installed and torqued. For some reason I had forgotten to get the silk thread for installing in the crankcase and had to wait for Monday afternoon when I could get to National Aviation here in Seattle and get some silk thread. But after I did my EKG stress test on Monday morning for my 3rd class medical I was able to the crankcase assembled. I am planning to start installing cylinders this afternoon. Frustrating part is that the TCM gasket set for the engine is short one o-ring for the oil cooler combination engine mount adapter. I had to order that o-ring earlier this week. Tom at XP Mods invited me over to inspect the tac-weleded engine mount assembly this week prior to final welding.
That’s All for now
A&P, IA, New owner C170A N1208D, Have rebuilt some 50 aircraft. So many airplanes, So little time!
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GAHorn
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by GAHorn »

Losing a family dog is harder than most losses. Sorry about that.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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