Installing A TCM IO360

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DaveF
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Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:44 am

Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by DaveF »

Hi Jim,

What do you know about the cowl lip? What size is it? Was it installed to fix a CHT problem or just to replace the existing lip?

Dave
Metal Master
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by Metal Master »

DaveF wrote:Hi Jim,

What do you know about the cowl lip? What size is it? Was it installed to fix a CHT problem or just to replace the existing lip?
Dave
I presume you are asking as regards the 172 TD. We just recently installed a new Lycoming wide deck O-360 A1A with the roller cam to replace the previously installed O-360 A1A narrow on deck which the case had fretted and was leaking at the Cylinder through bolt on the Number 2 cylinder. After installing the new O-360 we started having immediate CHT problems and weird Prop cycling issues along with an anomalously High EGT on the #1. Which were traced to Carb heat box and baffling issues as concerns the High CHT, EGT and the Hartzell prop governor as concerns the prop cycling. The engine went back to Lycoming as the onsite Lyc tec rep could not understand the issue either. They ultimately found nothing wrong with the engine but it was returned with and entirely different oil sump which was 5/8ths of an inch deeper in height which was noticeable at installation as the throttle bracket would not fit any more. Lycoming said no such thing occurred? In the attempt to get a handle on the High CHT we installed a lengthened Cowl lip. After we modified the baffling to better seal the front of the engine the CHT issue went away. So we removed the lengthened Cowl lip. After it was removed we had an Immediate spike in CHT again although not as much as before the Baffling mods . It works so we are keeping it. It took almost a year to get the new Lyc setteld down and operating properly. Including a new prop governor and Carb heat box to help stremline the carb air into the sump. It has 100 hours on it now.
If you are asking about the Cowl lip on the Cessna 170A it came that way to me.
A&P, IA, New owner C170A N1208D, Have rebuilt some 50 aircraft. So many airplanes, So little time!
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DaveF
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by DaveF »

Yes, I was referring to the 172TD. My O-360-A1A also ran hot after overhaul. It took about 50 hours for the CHTs to consistently stay below 400 on takeoff, and I was considering enlarging the cowl lip to further reduce the temps. They're ok now but I'm still interested in the lip for summertime ops. As you noted, the Avcon baffling has poor sealing between the upper and lower sides of the engine at the front. Based on your description there may be opportunity there, too.
Metal Master
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by Metal Master »

The engine is loaded in the truck and ready to go to the airport. I removed the O-300 last Saturday and then spent most of Sunday practicing guitar and Going to the N/W Aviation Trade Conference. I should pick up the prop today or tomorrow. I ran into a guy at the trade show rebuilding a Cessna 170A at Crest Air-park. I hope to hook up with him soon.
Engine loaded in truck RS.jpg
This is view inside my shop truck which has all of my shop tools in it along with my Snap-On tool box slip roller hydraulic press, welding equipment etc.
Jim
A&P, IA, New owner C170A N1208D, Have rebuilt some 50 aircraft. So many airplanes, So little time!
Metal Master
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by Metal Master »

We installed the engine and mount on the airplane last Saturday and then I found that I had left the sim card out of the camera and could not get pictures taken. Sunday I worked on the P210 all day and have not had a chance to get back to the 170 until last night. This is annual season and I have four to do over the next two months so my alone time with the 170 will diminish. But here is a picture with with the initial cowl fit. It is different from the build up jig and I had expected that so did not make any changes to fit until I had the engine on the airplane.
right side view resized.jpg
I had bolted the prop on temporarily to check spinner fit and clearance to the cowl and found no problems there. I had to take it off to do other work and as I did not have the camera no pictures, more later. Normally I would be polishing at this time of the year but I seem to have other interests right now.
I got a new mag switch with a start position this week and a vacuum regulator for the vacuum pump so the venturie will be coming off. It will give ma an excuse to remove the right side skin to make working under the instrument panel easier.
Jim
A&P, IA, New owner C170A N1208D, Have rebuilt some 50 aircraft. So many airplanes, So little time!
bagarre
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by bagarre »

Looks great!
What spinner did you go with? I can only find the pointy one.
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blueldr
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by blueldr »

David,
There is an airplane salvage outfit in Artesia, N.M., that specializes in spinners. They might be helpful. I've heard that theyre very accomodating. You might also consult with TIC170A member Jim Yates down in Edmund, OK. I seem to remember that he had a tough time finding a suitanle spinner for his TCM IO-360 conversion. I wound up with a "pointy" spinner on mine, but I never did like it. Looked like hell!
BL
bagarre
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by bagarre »

Desert Aircraft Salvage
5401 W Richardson Ave, Artesia, New Mexico 88210
(505) 748-2107

Could those be hte guys?

What's the desirable spinner part numbers or what did it come off of?

I was looking at one off a 337 that wasn't so ugly but its not approved.
Metal Master
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by Metal Master »

bagarre wrote:Looks great!
What spinner did you go with? I can only find the pointy one.
I went with the current spinner model approved for installation with the prop. McCauley does not make the old style center bulkhead for new installations anymore so I understand. It is essentially the same as the Hawk XP spinner and is the same spinner used on a 182 now installed via 337 and McCauley STC. I got it brand new for half price. Tom says the best spinner to use is off of the Franklin powered Maules M4-220C it is sort of bullet shaped. blunt not pointy. I gave my local prop shop guy the part numbers I could use and he came up with this spinner at half price for new I could not pass it up.
Jim
A&P, IA, New owner C170A N1208D, Have rebuilt some 50 aircraft. So many airplanes, So little time!
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blueldr
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by blueldr »

David Ross,
I'm curious about the spinner from the C-337 that you mentioned as being "not approved". By who? Is there some spinner approval authority? I guess that I'm getting more feeble than I realized, but I don't remember anything about spinners for either FP or CS props in the STC that I got from Tail Wheel Tom Anderson.
BL
bagarre
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by bagarre »

The STC calls out three spinners to use with the CS prop :?

Getting a different one approved might not be that hard but, who knows in today's world.
Metal Master
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by Metal Master »

I have finally gotten back around to working on my own airplane after completing three annuals and other repairs on customer airplanes. Attached are pictures of the header brackets I manufactured and the header tank I manufactured. Also a picture of the electric fuel pump installed in the owner produced fuel pump bracket. Tom of Landing Gear Works tells me these are hard to come by.
The header tank was just fitted it still needs to have the padding installed between the bracket and tank and have the fittings installed. I ran out of time on father’s day to do any more work on it. Next I will install the tank permanently and then I can complete the plumbing.
One thing I discovered in Toms installation drawing for the fuel system is that the fittings and O-rings for the Fuel pump are not called off. The fittings used in the R172E and R172K are the wrong fittings because they are 90 degree bulkhead fittings and for the fire wall installation of the pump in the 170 installation they need to be straight Bulkhead fittings. Parts required are 2 each AN832-6D Bulkhead fittings, 2each AN924-6D Bulkhead nuts and 2 each MS29512-06 O-rings
Attachments
Fuel Pump installed in bracket RS.jpg
Header tank installed in Side wall bracketRS.JPG
Header Tank Bracket Fuel Pump RS.jpg
A&P, IA, New owner C170A N1208D, Have rebuilt some 50 aircraft. So many airplanes, So little time!
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GAHorn
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by GAHorn »

Nice. Thanks for the clarifications and pics for those who dream of this mod.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
addseo1115
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by addseo1115 »

Interesting info.
Glad to see your discussion.
Thanks for posting.
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GAHorn
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by GAHorn »

(No matter how much/long I mentally work on a project it always seems after I finish ... I see some small way I could improve it, so don't take this as criticism, but as addt'l consideration if anyone plans this sort of thing again)... I'm thinking about the lowest point of the header tank and wondering if it wouldn't be best to have the exit at the lower/aft end of the tank so as to avoid any little pockets of water/debris from settling in the tank. It appears this tank has it's exit at the fwd/bottom, which in the 3-point stance might entrap water? I dunno...just thinkin'.....
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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