Installing A TCM IO360

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bagarre
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by bagarre »

Too bad they don't make a skull cap to fit that prop. :wink:

Aren't you down in Virginia Beach? Would love to fly down and see your handiwork some time.
I should have 95D's fuselage in my garage along with the IO-360 this January but still a long ways off.
Metal Master
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Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:52 am

Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by Metal Master »

bagarre wrote:Too bad they don't make a skull cap to fit that prop. :wink:

Aren't you down in Virginia Beach? Would love to fly down and see your handiwork some time.
I should have 95D's fuselage in my garage along with the IO-360 this January but still a long ways off.
I am on the opposite coast in Seattle Washington, Although I was stationed at Fort Eustis Virginia (Lived in Williamsburg)Getting my Sheet metal repair training in 1971 (US ARMY) and visited Virginia Beech often. I went back to the area to teach aircraft maintenance courses at Langley NASA Flight operations some years later. But it's a long flight in a 170A just for a visit. Patched many a bullet hole in those green helicopters.
A&P, IA, New owner C170A N1208D, Have rebuilt some 50 aircraft. So many airplanes, So little time!
Metal Master
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by Metal Master »

johneeb wrote:Looking really good Jim!

Be prepared to have great cabin heat. I really expect to have over heated soles on my flying boots.

Do you have a right angle drive for your vacuum pump? Yes it is an IO360C which has an additional gear drive for the pump and a Hydraulic pump for the landing gear in a Cessna Skymaster.

Have you tried putting the lock pin in the battery box cover yet, the one between the alternator and battery box is a tough spot to work in.
Yes I am making parts to install the battery in the rear. But for now I can get the battery cover on.The real pickle is getting the battery in and out.
A&P, IA, New owner C170A N1208D, Have rebuilt some 50 aircraft. So many airplanes, So little time!
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Roesbery
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by Roesbery »

If you hinge the end of the battery box. The battery will slide in easy That is the way my Lycoming conversions are done. Keeps the cable length short.
Metal Master
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by Metal Master »

Roesbery wrote:If you hinge the end of the battery box. The battery will slide in easy That is the way my Lycoming conversions are done. Keeps the cable length short.
Thanks!
That's not a bad idea. However my further future plans are to increase the size of the battery to a G-35 and re-locate it to the tail cone for better CG. However I am not going to perform that modification until all of the current mods are completed the airplane is weighed and the paperwork is finalized. You know it is strange to me that all of the Cessna 140's and 140A I work on have G-35 battery's originally.
A&P, IA, New owner C170A N1208D, Have rebuilt some 50 aircraft. So many airplanes, So little time!
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170C
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by 170C »

That is strange about the C-140's batteries. The '48 I learned to fly in, another one based on that apt and the '50 model I owned all had G25's.
OLE POKEY
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DaveF
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by DaveF »

Roesbery wrote:If you hinge the end of the battery box. The battery will slide in easy That is the way my Lycoming conversions are done. Keeps the cable length short.
Thanks for that tip! The battery in my Avcon is on the upper LH firewall, and removal requires removing the entire battery box. It's a pain.

Got a photo of the modified box?
Metal Master
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by Metal Master »

Yesterday December 30th 2015 I set up the fuel injection system on the IO 360. But that occurred only after some delay helping a neighbor at the hangars get his Cherokee started in the cold. He had just sold the airplane and the new owner was taking off for somewhere California. I got the his airplane started with a spare Concord G35 size battery I had laying around while the new owner drove into Seattle 40 minutes round trip to purchase a new battery. Then my friend who was scheduled to help do the fuel set up on the engine got stuck behind the fire line in traffic out in Tacoma because of an apartment fire. He had driven out to Lakewood south of Tacoma early in the morning to hook up with his gunsmith. The nearest fire hydrant was way down the road and across the street. After the Firemen had run the hoses down the road and across the street they had trapped everyone between the hoses and the only escape route on the road behind the hoses. The firemen would not allow anyone over the hoses. In the meantime traffic started building up behind the hoses on the street resulting in a mile and a half back up with no escape and no one to direct traffic. Steve and another guy got out of their cars to walk back down the line of cars and got everyone to back up to nearest escape route all before he could drive to Auburn to help me set up my fuel injection system. I thought he was not going to make it. Well there was nothing to be done about that so when he finally showed up it was afternoon and time to go to lunch. I had fish and chips.
I had had plenty of time before Steve showed up to get the engine all set up for the adjustments and had put a top charge on the lowly and old G-25 battery. It was cold and as the engine has only ran previously for a few short periods to make sure it would run and check control rigging I expected to have issues getting started due to the cold. It was about 35 degrees out. I ended up using the Concord G-35 as a jump battery. After putting the airplane outside and chocked the wheels I went over the test outline and safety brief with Steve. We discussed the use of the test gauges and I showed Steve where the fuel test gauges connected to the metered and unmetered fuel connections at the Fuel Metering Unit (FMU). Steve had never done a fuel set up on TCM Constant Flow Fuel Injection system. I discussed how all of the components of the fuel system related to one another and where all of the High and low end and Idle adjustments were to me made. Using the appropriate TCM SID 97-3 service information as a guide and using the TCM run sheet for recording the incremental adjustments.
It is interesting that the Latest version of the TCM SID 97-3 G has moved the fuel injection set up for IO360 series engine completely out of the SID and into the IO-360 overhaul and maintenance manuals latest revision which you have to buy from TCM as the maintenance manuals are not available on their service information at TCM’s web site. So I used the older version of TCM SID 97-3H.
It took about 8 engine runs to get the fuel system set up. Initially I had appropriate idle fuel flow but the mixture was to lean and I had to increase the mixture fuel flow at the FMU. I did a full power check noting the full throttle RPM fuel flow and manifold pressure on the aircraft instrument. I was only getting 2735 RPM (2800 RED Line) but the unmetered fuel flow was at 24 PSI right in the ball park. After making the mixture adjustment the full throttle unmetered fuel flow fell below the required range. Not surprising as the idle adjustments will affect the full throttle fuel flow on this system. What was surprising is that increasing the idle fuel flow which did obtain the requisite RPM rise at cutoff I was looking for but did not cause a reduction in unmetered idle fuel pressure which usually happens when making the idle fuel flow adjustment. It idle fell into the sweet spot. In several incremental adjustments I was able to get the High end unmetered fuel flow to 24 PSI just inside the required range. I did not want to make further adjustment until I had moved the test gauge to check the metered fuel pressure on the downstream side of the fuel metering unit. (FMU) At the last run I only got 2747 RPM so I adjusted the prop governor up one turn which should increase RPM about 25. However on the engine run it did not increase it stayed at 2747 RPM. But the metered fuel PSI, manifold pressure and fuel flow were in the ball park. So I am not going to make further adjustments on the system until I can make first take off runs to see where the RPM runs when the prop is unloaded. In the end the Idle fuel pressure was 8 PSI the RPM rise was 35 at engine cut off. The full throttle unmetered fuel pressure was 25 PSI and the metered fuel pressure was 17 all numbers right in the ball park for 2800 RPM which I will not see until I can do a takeoff run.
Short of vacuuming out the bilge, getting the interior installed back in the airplane and coordinated field approval for the Horizon tachometer I am ready for first flight. It Might get some polishing just to make a good show.
Hope you enjoy the story.
Jim
A&P, IA, New owner C170A N1208D, Have rebuilt some 50 aircraft. So many airplanes, So little time!
Metal Master
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by Metal Master »

I was working on the airplane on the first day of 2016 cleaning up under the rudder pedals and installing the last few placards. The number 2 radio is not installed because I want to check the radio wiring out before I reinstall it. Just suspicious. I got the rudder pedal heel plates reinstalled on the right side and the right side kick panel. But I removed the header tank to check a couple of leaks and make some adjustments. But here is a picture of the instrument panel with the new switch panel and the circuit breakers installed the replace the old fuses.
The dog on the top of the panel goes every where with me he is known as slip skid dog
The dog on the top of the panel goes every where with me he is known as slip skid dog
Different angle
Different angle
A&P, IA, New owner C170A N1208D, Have rebuilt some 50 aircraft. So many airplanes, So little time!
Metal Master
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by Metal Master »

Aryana wrote:Can you show a close up of the fuel flow placard above the manifold pressure/fuel flow instrument?
It will have to wait until I get back to the hangar. But if all you are interested in is the statement it has two separate wordings and is required by the STC. Full throttle is 2800 RPM and has a 5 minute limit. This placard tells what the full throttle 2800 RPM fuel flow should be at the stated altitudes. The new Brother label maker which connects to my lap top allows me to make pretty nice placards with a boarder around the statements for circuit breakers fuel shut off, cabin heat, alternate air and things like this fuel flow.
FUEL FLOW
FULL THROTTLE AND 2800 RPM
Sea Level......................17 GPH
4000 Feet.....................15 GPH
8000 Feet.....................13 GPH
12,000 Feet...................11 GPH
A&P, IA, New owner C170A N1208D, Have rebuilt some 50 aircraft. So many airplanes, So little time!
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blueldr
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by blueldr »

That is a very nice , neat looking. job.
BL
Metal Master
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by Metal Master »

blueldr wrote:That is a very nice , neat looking. job.
Thanks Blue Leader
A&P, IA, New owner C170A N1208D, Have rebuilt some 50 aircraft. So many airplanes, So little time!
bagarre
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by bagarre »

For an uncut '52 panel:
What's your opinion on keeping the original throttle location and using the carb heat location prop control and the blank to the left of that for alt air.

I'm fairly sure it'll work but you would know better just doing it.
Metal Master
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by Metal Master »

bagarre wrote:For an uncut '52 panel:
What's your opinion on keeping the original throttle location and using the carb heat location prop control and the blank to the left of that for alt air.

I'm fairly sure it'll work but you would know better just doing it.
Bagarre,
The original throttles had an aluminum strap that came off of the bottom of the glove box and held the throttle cable over to the right away from the control quadrant and the aileron cable. The throttle in the original installations also had an angled bushing that aimed the cable way from the quadrant and allowed the throttle to be more or less centered. Depending on whether you are able to keep the induction system on the IO 360 in its normal orientation or end up reversing it will change significantly where the cable has to come through the firewall. The Fuel Metering Unit is on top of the engine and is where the throttle cable will have to go to. Because of that issue - the cable will not come through the fire wall in its original location in either case and will drive where the cable is located. If you reverse the intake which will most likely be the easiest thing for you to do, the original location of the throttle in the instrument panel will work for you. I did not reverse the intake and that is partially what drove my location of the throttle. As my throttle is on the left side of the engine and not the right as it would be if reversed. (Note: If you reverse the intake it will require turning the throttle arm upside down in order too have your throttle operate in the correct direction. This is covered in the STC instructions along with drawings of the bracketry required). The other item that drove my arrangement is the combination fuel flow manifold pressure instrument because with the electronic tach I ultimately installed there was no place left for it to go in the instrument panel. Which is what drove getting rid of the piano key switches.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/i ... altach.php
As a side note to installing the P1000 horizon digital instrument I used in the 170 it is STC'd for the 170 and it is STC'd for installations in airplanes that have an TCM IO 360 but is not STC'd for the combination of the IO 360 installed in a 170. I am working on a coordinated field approval from the FAA through the FSDO and ACO (Aircraft Certification Office). This is driven by the fact that the Horizon instrument has an operators manual that has to be revised for the installation of the instrument. As a benefit? of this I bought the instrument directly from Horizon and paid less for it than if I had purchased it from Aircraft Spruce. Almost $100 less.

If I had installed the much more expensive electronics international electronic tachometer which has all of the features of both manifold pressure, fuel flow 6 probe EGT, CHT fuel quantity, oil pressure oil temp etc. etc. it would have completely changed what I did. I plan to install this EI instrument eventually any way but only after I can get the $$$ together. Also installing the Electronics International instrument would have negated the need for a coordinated field approval because it is STC'd for the 170 with any engine installed as a replacement instrument for all of the functions of manifold pressure, fuel flow probe EGT, CHT, fuel quantity (calculated), oil pressure, oil temp.
http://buy-ei.com/portfolio/cgr-30p-overview/
If your instrument is the later style panel used in the 170 B then you will have more options on where your instrumentation could go. If I had my rathers I would have a “Y” type control yoke and a center stack radio combination and a later style instrument panel. And I would be a much happier person but that is just me.
Jim
A&P, IA, New owner C170A N1208D, Have rebuilt some 50 aircraft. So many airplanes, So little time!
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c170b53
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Re: Installing A TCM IO360

Post by c170b53 »

Thanks Again Jim for the detailed information and the reasoning Behind the routes you took.
I'd just like to comment on the craziness of this thing called certification. My Hawk XP, a 1979 model has its throttle control punched through the firewall 2 inches away from where there's plugged prefabricated hole and provisions for firewall cable shields. They, likely like you found the arrangements of the controls needed fine tuning. Cessna just goo-bbed the cable with sealant as it passed through the firewall The prop and mixture are just punched through as well but Cessna just said " around here" for those controls.
New planes, at least the big ones I work on, now use tie-wraps to connect ducts and components together. That's a lot of ducts and it's done in the name of fuel efficiency.
The lunacy here, maybe it's me, both planes can be designed with common sense but that's decided, depending on who's sense is deemed to be common at that time. Then try to change things and adopt standard present practices, not so easy!
Jim McIntosh..
1953 C170B S/N 25656
02 K1200RS
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