Building Tailwheel Time Before Ownership

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hilltop170
Posts: 3481
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 6:05 pm

Re: Building Tailwheel Time Before Ownership

Post by hilltop170 »

I took some instruction in a rented 65hp PA-11 Cub to start with then bought a 65hp Taylorcraft for $1800 and flew that for 200hr before buying the 170. Learning in a small 2-seat trainer gives the best experience in my opinion. The lack of power teaches you to fly the airplane instead of relying on power to pull you out of a jamb. Of course the stock 170 is not overpowered but it does have more performance than the 65hp trainers. Once you learn how to consistently land that springy 170 gear well, you can fly just about any taildragger.
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
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Ryan Smith
Posts: 1210
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:26 am

Re: Building Tailwheel Time Before Ownership

Post by Ryan Smith »

After I had about 30 hours of solo flying in the 170 and Super Cub under my belt, I was getting a little cocky. My cousin stuffed me in the left seat of his beautiful, freshly restored Pacer to get my attitude back in check.

Stardusters are some of the prettiest airplanes ever. I can remember drooling over this airplane when the article in Sport Aviation was published.
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ghostflyer
Posts: 1390
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:06 am

Re: Building Tailwheel Time Before Ownership

Post by ghostflyer »

I started out in a Cub with a whopping great screaming 65 hp engine that used to leak gallons of oil. No starter ,just a swing start on the prop. This was one rough aircraft. The instructor always did the daily and wouldn't let me do a close inspection. He knew I was a engineer and no doubt was worried I would ground the aircraft. This aircraft was lifting a student of a 100kgs and the instructor was about 120 kgs. Thank God for the curvature of the earth. This aircraft had heal brakes that were totally ineffective. This aircraft is the only one I have ever ground looped . One day during training I had a stand in instructor and he remarked that I was a little rusty on controlling the aircraft . I was having trouble controlling the aircraft. so about 1/2 hour later after landing another student took the aircraft up and it crashed about 20 feet off the ground on the take off run. It was found the left hand aileron bellcrank wasn't attached and the control rod that attaches the rear stick was also broken. so really the left aileron was only faired with the airstream. the investigation found many other problems also ,so the best fix was to change schools.
I then started flying super decathlons ,OMG what a difference. The 5 hours flying the cub was a waste of time and money for me . And my life could have been finished also. Another 3 hours and I was ready for my tailwheel endorsement. I then had done about 60 hours in the super decathlon and about another 40 hours in a citribia due to my job. So when the 170 was put on the register I had a enough experience to fly it with out breaking it. HOWEVER during the cub training I was rebuilding the 170 or maybe before the cub training [ too many years ago I cant remember exactly] . I was testing the 170 on a high speed taxi check as we had just finished assembling the undercarriage .This wasn't on a airport just in a paddock [field].The panels were still open on the wings as the second inspection hadn't been done , but as we accelerated the tail came up and I noticed the loose panels flapping away on the wings. the aircraft tracked beautifully and braked straight. This was text book stuff. It was only recently that I was shown a photo which I didn't know existed showing the aircraft about a foot off the deck with all the panels flapping. some thing tells me the ailerons and flaps were not fitted also. Its too long ago to remember all the details .
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rydfly
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:37 am

Re: Building Tailwheel Time Before Ownership

Post by rydfly »

Like many others here, I did most of my primary training in a TW. It was a well-used 65hp J3, to be specific. Waynesville, OH (40I) still begins all students like they have since 1946... in either a Cub or a Champ. Only transitioned to a 150 when it was time to do radio work and VOR navigation.

I flew nosewheel aircraft for the next several years until we purchased the 170, then got 10-hrs of dual to satisfy insurance requirements. Having been away from tailwheel aircraft for even a few years, I can attest that my skills were very rusty during those first few 170 hours!
1953 C170B - N170RP S/N 25865
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GAHorn
Posts: 20967
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 8:45 pm

Re: Building Tailwheel Time Before Ownership

Post by GAHorn »

I got my tailwheel experience long before FARs required endorsements and before insurance companies realized that "conventional landing gear" was the tricky one.
Using my best sales-techniques on a Pipeline Patrol company owner who was desperate for a pilot to fill a new vacancy I managed to get hired flying a C-150 in 1972. (He wanted someone who was tailwheel qualified and I managed to mislead the guy with tales of once riding in a T-6 and a Citabria.) After a year he leased a C-120 and assigned it to surprised me by believing my long-forgot interview responses.
I learned to fly it during the next 800 hours logged in 5 months on the patrol-routes, and graduated to a C-140 for another couple thousand hours.
After a detour thru a 135 charter operator and a commuter airline I ended up in a corporate job and bought a 65 hp Aeronca Chief with mechanical heel brakes which taught me to appreciate the sophistication of Cessna airplanes.
So, after many years of flying corporate and gov't airplanes I bought a C-206 and then a Beech Baron before remembering how much fun tailwheels were, ...so I bought what is likely my retirement airplane, my '53 C-170-B, which is a real tame airplane for a taildragger, IMO.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
texasflyboy
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 4:16 pm

Re: Building Tailwheel Time Before Ownership

Post by texasflyboy »

Thanks for all the replies everyone!

Looks like my only options these days are to get some dual tailwheel time or rent the less than ideal condition Citabria in our area. As I'd like to have a long flying career, I'll go for the dual time. Not sure if that'll help insurance when I finally get the 170B in a few years, but it'll help build the skills necessary for the young nosewheel generation!

If buying was an option, I'd go get the 170B today, prices are pretty good and there a few nice examples for sale. We're young and don't have the money yet so in the meantime it'll be renting/buying-gas and/or a fractional ownership if a nice one comes up.

Thanks again!

Jon
bagarre
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Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:35 pm

Re: Building Tailwheel Time Before Ownership

Post by bagarre »

Another option is to buy a $15,000 Cessna 120 or 140 to get your license in. You'll probably have just as much money in renting a 172 by the time your done but you'll have all the tailwheel time you need and have something to sell.
texasflyboy
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 4:16 pm

Re: Building Tailwheel Time Before Ownership

Post by texasflyboy »

Good idea but won't work for me. I did my training with the Air Cadets and didn't get to choose the airplane (172).
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